Hooks for Leisenring Nymphs

[DNicolson]

I have noticed that when fly patterns with Leisenring origins are
shown here, on the Flymphforum, that they very often have
up-eyed hooks. Here in the UK, up-eyed hooks are almost
exclusively used on dry flies, especially of the older styles,
a la Halford. This struck me as odd, so I went back to Leisenring's
'The Art of TyingThe Wet Fly'.
On re-reading the chapter on 'hooks', page 45, he states ,
"I prefer my my hooks to have turned-down eyes."
It appears from this chapter, that a round bend, micro-barb hook
was his preference, long shank when required.
The Partridge Ideal Nymph appears to fit the bill.
Description - An all-round wet fly hook great for nymph, standard wet fly patterns and wake flies. Bronze Nickel finish.
This is the image


Another good hook is the Captain Hamilton wet and dry fly versions,
another Partridge hook, although these may be harder to find as they are
not listed on Partridge's site any more.

I am in the mood to finish the article on Leisenring's Nymphs on my web-site,
so I have been looking at suitable hooks, I shall almost certainly use
the Partridge Captain Hamilton hooks as, luckily, I still have quite a few.

[Soft-hackle]

Donald,
You are correct regarding Leisenring's preference on hooks. "Flymphs", however, was a term coined by Vern Hidy, Leisenring's friend and student. Hidy liked up eye hooks for flymphs. He often tied on them, and he felt they looked better ascending in the water column. Hidy often used Mustad 94842 dry fly hooks, which are up eye, round bend hooks. So, I would say either style hook would be appropriate, unless you are trying to exactly replicate only Leisenring's flies.

Here's a photo of two of flymphs as tied by Hidy from Jim Slattery's flymph site:


My take is that today's modern fly dressers have a fairly wide range of good hooks available to them and can dress these flies appropriately to the manner in which they will be used. I like a sproat bend hook of standard wire like a Mustad S60-3399A for many of Leisenring's flies. If, however, I were tying to replicate Leisenring's flies, it appears a round bend would be the appropriate selection.

Mark

PS. See additional info, below.

[CreationBear]

Speaking of TUE hooks, are there any 2XL models out there for "trout-sized" flies, or am I into "low-water salmon" territory? (Speaking of which, there was a pack of #14 Partridge Single Wilson hooks at my local flyshop that gave me sweaty palms, but I couldn't--then!--justify the price when I catch mostly eight-inch trout. )

[Soft-hackle]

Hi Again, Donald,
Leisenring's second choice of hook was an Allcock #1810 Sproat bend. So a turned down eye, sproat bend hook might very well be just as appropriate for Leisenring flies.

Mark

[DNicolson]

Mark,
I believe Leisenring communicated quite a lot with Skues, I wonder if
Skues influenced him in his D/E preferences.
It would be very, very interesting to read their exchanges.
I suppose neither thought their letters would be of interest to anybody else.

Funny, there is nothing on Leisenring on Wikipedia.

[narcodog]

Donald,
I read the letter that Leisenring wrote to Skues that J.S. has and I found it very interesting. If there are many more out there I think some of us would find them entertaining. Maybe a book published like Note and Letters of Gordon with Big Jim's letters.

[Soft-hackle]

Donald, Robert,
Jim's book should bring a lot more information to us regarding these things. Donald, absolutely, Leisenring was influenced by Skues, and I think many of the patterns Leisenring used probably were from him, but adapted to US waters. One good example is the Tup's nymph, but it's only one within many.

Mark

[Stendalen]

Dear all

I do not think I can contribute so much to this interesting discussion. However, I can refer to the Swedish book by Gunnar Johnson and Anders Forsling "Flymfer och andra mjukhacklade flugor" (My translation: "Flymphs and other soft hackled flies"). I am sure you have heard about this book and the friendship between Mr Hidy and Mr Jonsson.

In the book there is a section about hooks and Mr Johnson writes that Hidy preferred eye-up hooks. Hidy meant that the leader of an- up-eyed hook brings the fly in a more natural upward movement through the water. The fly's center of gravity changes, and allows it to rise to the surface in a more trustworthy manner. However, again according to the book, Hidy used down-eyed hooks as well. Specially for caddis pupa flymphs. Here, the down-eye emphasizes caddispupa's curved and bent body shape.

Hidy used two types of hooks from Veniard, one with a slight Limerick bend and one wide gape model. When Veniard discontinued these hooks, he changed to Mustad 94842 TUE. Hidy also wanted the hook to have a tapered eye because with those it is possible to tie a smaller, and therefore more beautiful, head.

What strikes me, reading the section, is that Hide was very focussed on the aesthetics. He said to Mr Jonsson "...always have simplicity and beauty in mind." "Always tie flies that you are proud of and through away every disgraceful example - even if you could catch a fish with it."

Cheers
Martin

[Soft-hackle]

Martin,
Very nice additional information for this thread. The following hooks, and any potential cross matches in other brands, would lend themselves nicely to tying caddis flymphs, having both a curved shank and up eye. This is exactly what I was speaking of when talking about modern fly hook selection. I'm sure that Leisenring and Hidy would have used different hook styles if they were still around, today.

http://greatfeathers.com/daiichi-1140-f ... hooks.aspx

http://greatfeathers.com/daiichi-1150-f ... hooks.aspx

http://greatfeathers.com/daiichi-1250-f ... hooks.aspx

Mark

[daringduffer]

Hi Again, Donald,
Leisenring's second choice of hook was an Allcock #1810 Sproat bend. So a turned down eye, sproat bend hook might very well be just as appropriate for Leisenring flies.

Mark

From Ronn Lucas' site:




dd

Edit. Found these: from http://www.flyhookfiller.se/krok-1/orin ... etfly.html

He has some cool hooks...