FLYMPH FORUM

I tied about 3 spiders yesterday, on the shorter shanked Daiichi 1640 hooks. All of my partridge feathers were a bit too long. I used the shortest feathers I had. The ideal feather length is to the bend of the hook, and not past it right? I will post photos later. I was tying a Partridge and Orange. (mostly size 14 hooks, because I have more of them to play with)

Kelly L. wrote: The ideal feather length is to the bend of the hook, and not past it right?

It's a matter of taste. Take a look at my avatar; it's a Partridge and Orange as illustrated in Pritt's North Country Flies, one of the standard references on the subject, from 1885. The hackle is considerably longer than the bend of the hook, and is the model that I usually tie to.

Many modern tiers use a somewhat a shorter hackle. I personally don't find it as effective, but that could be the old confidence thing -- you catch more fish on the flies you have confidence in, because you fish them more often.

When I started tying these flies a decade or so ago, I was given the advice that "half the hook length is too short, twice the hook length is too long, and anything in between is just fine."

Do you have loose feathers or a whole skin? I have no problem finding feathers on a skin that will tie down to a size 18. In fact, the last two times that I've had to get a new skin were because I could no longer find any feathers large enough to tie a size 14 on the old ones. I can still get 16 and 18 from both those skins.

Kelly I think Bob is right on with the hackle length. There are also tutorials out there using longer hackle barbs. Most just pull the amount of barbs desired from the feather and tie them in to a bit longer than desired length with the tips pointed over the eye of the hook. Tie down and clip the butts. Build the desired body. With a finger just lightly poke the hackle tips coaxing them rearward. Once achieved bring your tying thread through the hackle and build a neat head. They may not look exactly like the photos shown here and elsewhere however once fished even the prettiest of ties no longer look like their original self.

Regards, Jerry

redietz I have a whole skin...and it is fairly nice too

Bob is right there is no set rule. I generally strive for somewhere in between the point and the end of the hook with no particular measurement. This is not set in stone for me either. I tend to tie the hackles a little longer on my stillwater patterns and a little shorter on patterns to represent nymphs.

For fishing flies just adjust the length as Jerry has stated. Instead of a finger try using a half hitch tool and slide it over the hook eye inside the hackles. It will push all the hackle back evenly then you can just wrap in front of them using the tool or grab all hackles back out of the way, remove the tool and form your head.

That is about the length I would go on my stillwater patterns. Nothing wrong with it at all. Great looking fly.

The purpose of the fly makes a difference to me as well. To me that is a nice tie for an upstream fly, but I wouldn't swing it.

Thanks guys for your thoughts. This will mostly be used in still water applications. I do have an old book in my documents, that showed much longer hackle lengths, than you see now, normally. I tried to view more of this fly on here, but I guess there are too may mentions of Partridge and Orange, and it wouldn't bring photos up. Then I went to William's site, and a search engine. My hackle seemed longer. Part of it is due to the extra short shank on this hook. I love the 1640 hook though. I think it makes a fine spider hook. Old Hat, I forgot what swinging a fly is. I am gonna have to look that up...lol.

Kelly L. Howdy;

After a few of those worm thiv'en bluegills and red ears get ahold of
it the length will probably be 'just right' ... , .

hank

Simply, swinging a fly is casting across or quartered downstream and letting your fly swing across the current back to the nearside below you. I don't like the longer hackle s for this because they just collapse and you don't get the lively imitation I like. I generally like to use hen for this purpose so the fly pushes a little water and the hackle is easier to manipulate in the current. Stillwater is a different story because with a slow retrieve you can get the longer hackles to flow and swim in the water.

Hank, isn't that the truth. Those bream will tear these flies up. They are sometimes very aggressive towards flies, especially the buggy ones. I went to a local lake the other day. A friend of mine caught a nice sized bass on a .....
midge. I could not believe it. It was a large midge pattern, but still a MIDGE. I am really hopeful for some nice sized slab crappies with this fly. They like bugs too. With the movement of the hackle, it just might entice them.

Thanks Old Hat for the explanation of the swing. I don't normally do that, because I mainly fish lakes.

Kelly L. wrote: redietz I have a whole skin...and it is fairly nice too

That's about the length I prefer. You'll get hundreds of flies out the skin.

Carl may believe that longer hackle doesn't work as well with swung flies, but I took 25 wild browns this afternoon that would differ with opinion. Again, though, it's the whole confidence thing.

(One small critique about the P&O, if you're trying to tie a traditional one -- the one you show will certainly catch fish, and feel free to ignore if you're not going with tradition -- That's the wrong hackle. You're looking for a brown one out of the middle of the back. Save the gray ones for partridge and yellows or partridge and greens.)