Dark Olive Nymph

[Greenwell]

"As for dubbing with seal, it can be notoriously difficult to work with. My guess is that part of the problem we have today is that most of the legal seal fur we can find has come from an adult animal and that "back in the day" (before PETA), tyers probably had access to more supple baby seal fur."

Bill, what we are using IS baby seal! And most on the market comes from old stocks that have been "underground" for a long time. Counter intuitively, the baby seal has a course, fuzzy coat, light in color to blend in with the snow and ice. The adults' coats are shorter and softer, better for swimming and usually of a much darker color. Adult fur seal is a rich brown, very short in fiber, and very soft.

I have found it best to try to dub seal fur without cutting it shorter. Try aligning the fibers by pulling it between your fingers and dubbing it "length wise", if that makes sense. Seal is notoriously intractable to work with, especially on smaller flies. Don't expect to get a tight, smooth body with it but rather revel in it's bugginess!.

[tie2fish]

Thanks for setting me straight, John.

[hankaye]

Howdy All;

I've read the method that I mentioned earlier and remembered
that Doug(sden), mentioned in a PM that the style used by
Dave Whitlock in his video about tying the RFSN is very similar
if not the same. Think I'm going to experiment a bit and see if
I can get this seal & bear to behave a wee bit.

hank

[cassady]

William put this more eloquently, but I'm happy to hear that others are challenged by seal. I spent the weekend working on flies for the swap, and had somewhat of a hard time, as this is my first time using it. I'm learning a lot from this discussion. I tried a variety of methods over a couple of days before I settled on something that worked for me.

I first tried using a dubbing loop and split thread. First with full length fibres and then with fibres cut shorter. All of those techniques worked adequately -- but the finished fly came out far more 'buggy' (read bad hair day in an electrical storm) than the pictures of nymphs we have been so kindly been provided, even with the shorter fibres. So on to other methods.

I tried several different ways of dubbing onto the thread. Long fibres, medium fibres, short fibres, very short fibres. Plain thread (silk), waxed thread (several different waxes, including Leisenring's and 721 tying wax and wonder wax dubbing wax). None of those had the look I was aiming for. And short and very short fibres didn't work well at all.

What I finally settled on was an old A.K. Best trick. I left the silk thread plain, and waxed my fingers -- or more precisely, I touched my fingers to the wonderwax before I dubbed the seal's fur onto the thread. This led to a relatively tight noodle which, after wrapping, presented what seemed to me to be a satisfactory mix of bugginess and body.

(I didn't try the dubbing block method 'cause I haven't had a chance to make myself one. Yet.)

Anyway, that's my experience. Perhaps it might translate to working with the seal & bear mixture.

Best,

chris

[zen leecher]

I don't have hardly any problems with seal fur compared to angora goat. Dubbing with goat makes seal easy(er).

[hankaye]

Howdy All;

I'm going to retract my thoughts about the " twisted dubbing noodle"
I'd mentioned earlier... not exactly suitable for a size 15 ... .

When I first started into the Bear I discovered that the individual
hairs were crinkled like a Ruffles potato chip. As the book calls for
"a little dark-brown bear's fur (found next to skin)" ... I just clipped the
bear fur to about a half inch length as opposed to the 2.5" to 3" length
that arrives on the hide. Works much better. I've also plucked some of
the what appear to be guard hairs from the Seal as well and it too is
behaving better ... . Twisting directly onto the tying thread also
works fine (for me), without the use of wax, so far. Might change my mind
about the wax, but it would have to be a clear or near clear type I'd use
for this set.

hank

[Jerry G]

In reading of your problems with seal and bear fur I am wondering if soaking these materials in a fabric softener wouldn't make them more manageable for you. Just a thought as I have read that this makes squirrel tail and kip (calf tail) more manageable when tying wings with these materials down.

Regards, Jerry

[hankaye]

Jerry G. Howdy;

Thanks for the suggestion, however I'm almost afraid the smell would overpower me before I get finished.

Seriously, I think I have it figured out, for me ... and was just passing along what I've found works for me ...so far.

hank

[Old Hat]

I somehow missed this

Here is how I handle the seal dub, especially on the smaller flies. I don't do the premade dubbing strands. I use the split thread technique with the Pearsall's. It is a 3 strand, I'm sure you know. I open the thread at the rear of the hook. Split so you have the strands divided two and one. You will dub one or the other. If you want more thread showing through, dub the single strand. If less, dub the double strand. Wet your fingers and take a very small amount seal and tightly apply it to the desired strand just as you would be making a noodle. Use only enough for the abdomen. Then more loosely apply another bunch below the abdomen dubbing and slightly overlapping, sometimes I don't even roll it onto the strand, I just pinch it in place. This is for the thorax. Now trap it all in the thread and spin it back together. This should make for a very tight abdomen and larger thorax with a decent taper and with some control over the amount of thread that is visible. You can tie very small with the more difficult dubbings this way. This is how I tied this #16. http://www.flymphforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=4791

I find it much easier not to clip the seal, use it long. Also for my bear hair, I may be wrong, but I was under the impression that the hair being described was under fur. I have a few pieces and only one had some dark underfur that was much softer than the "hair" used normally for winging. I used this for mixing with the seal and it made a complement to the course seal.

As another option. With long seal fur you can align the fibers with you fingers. Trap an end with your thread. Twist it with the thread and wrap. Similar to tying in a peacock and thread twist. This option is more dependent on the properties of you material.

[hankaye]

Old hat, Howdy;

Thanks for the suggestions on handling the Seal, have any tips up your sleeve
for the crinkly bear fur or just cut it short and blend it in ???

hank