Hooks.

Post by **daringduffer** » Tue Feb 14, 2012 4:04 pm

For some time I have been thinking that we ought to collect hook discussion in one place. If you agree, then post here. I intend to ask a question eventually about 'Proper hooks' since it seems Datus Proper didn't like hooks like Daiichi1640/Drennan Carbon Specimen/Kamasan980 and that style of hook. I'm sure Mike, Ruard and others disagree with him.

dd

Post by **Jerry G** » Tue Feb 14, 2012 6:16 pm

Sorry to say I'm not very well read on Datus Proper or for that matter any of the other names that frequent the discussions here. Would you care to elaborate some on what Mr. Proper's dislikes were with this style hook?

Regards, Jerry

Post by **daringduffer** » Wed Feb 15, 2012 3:16 pm

Re: Hooks.

Post by Jerry G » 15 Feb 2012, 01:16
Sorry to say I'm not very well read on Datus Proper or for that matter any of the other names that frequent the discussions here. Would you care to elaborate some on what Mr. Proper's dislikes were with this style hook?

Regards, Jerry

In his discussion of hooks he mentions the aspect of hooking leverage and how that effects the penetration for setting of the hook when the trout takes the fly. He discusses the relationship between hook gape and shank length, tue versus tde, straight point versus offset etcetera. He has a whole chapter on hooks where he ends up preferring down eyed hooks with long(ish) shanks and straight points. This is about dry fly hooks and barbless hooks not included. Last sentences in the chapter

The real breakthrough in hook design would require a stronger wire. The best of what we now have seems about what it was sixty years ago: not bad, but not the kind of thing engineers put in moon rockets. A true size 14 weighing .18 grains and testing three pounds would make more difference at the trout's end than any amount of miracle fibers in fly rods.

What dictates your choice of hooks?

dd

Mike Connor · Post by **Mike Connor** » Wed Feb 15, 2012 3:32 pm

I would not disagree with anybody's choice of hook, it's up to them what they use. I use what I use for various reasons which I consider valid for my usage, others have other criteria or reasons for using/avoiding various hook types or designs.

The 1640 / Drennan Carbon Specimen are my main fly hooks for all sorts of things. I like the 2x Short shank as this provides a wider gape for the same length of hook. I like straight eyes on the majority of my flies. The hooks are good steel, invariably well tempered, sharp,and easily resharpened, with short points and small barbs.

TL
MC

Post by **tie2fish** » Wed Feb 15, 2012 3:43 pm

Jerry G wrote:Sorry to say I'm not very well read on Datus Proper or for that matter any of the other names that frequent the discussions here. Would you care to elaborate some on what Mr. Proper's dislikes were with this style hook?

Regards, Jerry

General info about D.C. Proper ...
http://www.lib.montana.edu/collect/spco ... d/2502.php

Post by **daringduffer** » Thu Mar 08, 2012 4:55 am

For Kelly:

I find it difficult to search all over the forum to collect information about hooks. That's why I started this topic. The question I'm answering comes in this topic:http://www.flymphforum.com/viewtopic.ph ... 0&start=10

My intention was to tell you that these hooks (1530/175) are the same. I seem to be wrong about that. Daiichi - 2x heavy wire, Kamasan - 3x strong wire.

"Daiichi Fly Hooks - Wet / Nymph Hooks - Heavy Wet Fly Hook

1530- Heavy Wet Fly Hook
1530 (Bronze) Sproat bend,down-eye,2X-heavy wire, 1X-short shank Uses:Short-Bodied Wet Flies,Nymphs, Steelhead Flies"

"Kamasan B175 Sproat

Turned down eye, bronzed, 3x. Strong wire.
Sizes: 6-8-10-12-14-16"

These ought to be the same:

Kamasan
B160 Sproat Hooks
Turned down eye, bronzed, 3x short shank.

Daiichi
1510-(6 - 18)-25 1510 (Bronze) Sproat bend,down-eye,3X-short shank Uses:Egg Patterns,Spiders,Ants

And these:

Kamsan:

B170 Sproat Hooks
Turned down eye, bronzed, standard shank.

Daiichi:

1550- Standard Wet Fly Hook
1550 (Bronze) Sproat bend,down-eye,standard wire, standard length Uses:Traditional Wet Flies

dd

Post by **daringduffer** » Mon Mar 12, 2012 2:55 pm

Sz 18 only. GBP 3 per 100.

Sz 14 only. Same price.

Sz 12 only. Same price.

http://www.flytyingshop.co.uk/product-p/vmc9285.htm

dd

Post by **Kelly L.** » Mon Mar 12, 2012 7:53 pm

DD, I do not mind a bit to have one place to talk about hooks. I have a thing about hooks, as you know. Some women collect shoes, I collect hooks and materials. As far as the Daiichi 1640 was mentioned, I think it is a lovely hook. I have read good reviews on it. I do not know of the person you mentioned, who does not like this hook. I have not found a Daiichi hook I have not liked, yet. I will have to look up the name of the person you mentioned, as that name is not familiar to me.

Are you telling me the hooks I questioned the brand on, are made by a company called Jardine? I love the samples I got, and I do intend on getting some. The question of shipping though, was confusing to me, as far as price is concerned. Otherwise I think they are reasonably priced. I love classic flies, and classic hooks. (one would know if they saw the various flies I've tied) You seem to be a wealth of info on hooks here, as are a few others. I have only been tying now for 4 years, as of mid January. I still have a lot to learn.

Post by **daringduffer** » Tue Mar 13, 2012 6:43 am

Kelly L. wrote:DD, I do not mind a bit to have one place to talk about hooks. I have a thing about hooks, as you know. Some women collect shoes, I collect hooks and materials. As far as the Daiichi 1640 was mentioned, I think it is a lovely hook. I have read good reviews on it. I do not know of the person you mentioned, who does not like this hook. I have not found a Daiichi hook I have not liked, yet. I will have to look up the name of the person you mentioned, as that name is not familiar to me.

Are you telling me the hooks I questioned the brand on, are made by a company called Jardine? I love the samples I got, and I do intend on getting some. The question of shipping though, was confusing to me, as far as price is concerned. Otherwise I think they are reasonably priced. I love classic flies, and classic hooks. (one would know if they saw the various flies I've tied) You seem to be a wealth of info on hooks here, as are a few others. I have only been tying now for 4 years, as of mid January. I still have a lot to learn.

No Kelly, that last post had nothing to do with the sample hooks. These hooks are from another supplier in a different country called UK. The hooks in the pictures are french VMC and are dirt cheap but not cheap dirt. I posted them for you. The red hooks with the Jardine label I posted because William showed us a fly on a red hook with maker unknown. If you follow the link you will find a lot of different hook labels/makers. Not all of those are cheap. Those Hanaks look interesting too, although a bit pricey.

Datus Proper - if he is the one you are referring to - is well worth a read. I suppose you can find his book in a public library. He didn't mention Daiichi 1640, he just discussed his preferences regarding shank length versus hook gape and the resulting hook leverage. The book is worth owning, since re-reading it is almost a necessity.

dd

Post by **Kelly L.** » Tue Mar 13, 2012 9:21 am

Thank you for the clarification on this. The photos did not have a name of the hook, so I was confused. Then I saw the package at the bottom, and thought you were saying this was the maker of the hooks we had been talking about. (that was my assumption) I am gonna have to try and stop buying more hooks for a while. After this order from Sweden, I need to put the brakes on hard, for my spending spree.