woodcock and grouse

[Kelly L.]

I am going to make a fly that calls for woodcock. I have a bag of woodcock, but the feathers are a bit large I think. They are very similar to another loose bag of English Grouse feathers I have. Is the grouse a good sub for the woodcock, or should I just stick with the woodcock? This will be to make a spider fly. Thoughts?

[zen leecher]

I don't think the fish care which feather is used but I will defer to the soft hackle experts. I know from a fly collector standpoint that the hackle does make a difference in attractiveness.

[William Anderson]

Kelly, if you're going for the classic North Country Spider style pattern, you will likely have to find a pair of woodcock wings to get the marking usually associated with those patterns, or attempt one of the several techniques for using larger feathers in smaller hooks. If you're tying this pattern to match a particular bug in your area, the substitutes can only be derived from the natural insect. The UK version would have had a specific bug in mind, not likely identical to those found in Texas. If you're tying for the sale of doing it, or because it's a magnificent general buggy spider with all the attributes you would want...the

[Kelly L.]

I have the wrong woodcock feather. I tied two of them up, just to see what they would look like. I need the marginal covert, if I want to make it authentic. The feathers I have are loose, in a package. I have no idea what part of the bird they came from. I guess I will have to eventually get a pair of wings, if I want to do it right. The ones I tied though, should definitely get fish here. I was trying to tie the Woodcock and Hare's Lug. I bought amber thread specifically for this fly. I knew I had woodcock, but I should of made sure I had the right ones. I don't think the fish here in Texas, will give a flip whether it is woodcock, or grouse. (or for that matter the marginal covert feathers...lol) Most of the time here, if it looks buggy, something will latch on to it. I am going to do one with the English grouse. It is probably not going to be much different in looks. I don't know if there is a English Grouse and Hare's Lug. But I think I am gonna tie some up anyway.

[Old Hat]

If you are just trying to tie a classic to original specs then you should purchase the wings. You can get them from Great Feathers, I am pretty sure and Jim Slattery may have some as well. They aren't too spendy.

As William stated though, these specific feathers were selected "in the days" because they best matched the insect they wanted to mimic and even then they were limited mostly to what they had available. It is easy to get caught up in the "it's a classic" mentality and thinking it will work anywhere. Generally this is not the case.

With that said, I am the first to admit that I enjoy tying classic patterns to spec and trying to get them to work on local water, but I also understand that there is probably better patterns for the situation.

[Kelly L.]

Thank you for your thoughts. I will see how much for they cost. I think the flies I did would work on the crappie, and I know they will work on the sunfish here. I know trout are more picky.

[Kelly L.]

Ah, I found a recipe for Grouse and Orange, and Grouse and Yellow. I am in luck. May use the hare's ear for them too.

[JohnP]

Trout aren't always all that picky, depending upon where they live and the relative abundance of food. In the freestone streams I typically fish, the trout will usually grab any tempting morsel that comes along, unless there is a hatch on, at which time they can become somewhat selective. I think a buggy looking soft hackle will catch trout in those instances, whether it is tied with woodcock, English grouse, partridge or brown owl. But the woodcock wings are relatively cheap, and it is fun to try to tie the pattern as close to the original as possible. Only the trout can tell you if they know the difference between woodcock and grouse, and they aren't talking.

[Kelly L.]

I sent Jim an email. Hopefully I can get one on the way real soon.

[William Anderson]

Kelly, those wings are not expensive, but the addiction can leave you wondering where all your money went. (I'm without a computer, still, and my last post got cut off...damn phone) I laughed when you said you found a recipe for a grouse and orange, which is the recipe itself. If you can think of a feather and a color...it's already claimed somewhere as a classic. =) there is even a pattern (the name escapes me) named after some small town in England, but it's just a partridge hackle and pheasant tail body. Like they invented it. =).

Good luck with your spiders. I'd love to see them.

W