The debate - Should I wax my threads?

[flyfishwithme]

I am opening up a debate.
When I first started tying spiders I used wax. Various sorts and most of what has been posted on many threads in the forum.
But increasingly over the past year I have not done this.
My logic was that wax was needed to hold flies together when we were tying eyeless hooks. Wax seems to turn silk into a lifeless thread. And I just got plain lazy.
About two years ago I re-read 'Sunshine and the dry fly' by JW Dunne. This got me thinking about translucency. I certainly wasn't going to the trouble of painting hooks and using acetate but I did start to tie all of my patterns without wax when using silk threads.
I guess using pre-waxed threads helped me change but I have observed very closely the effect this has had on patterns. I experimented on the river in natural light as well as in containers at home. Those flies WITHOUT wax do look more life like.
So people, what are your thoughts on this?

[Old Hat]

Hi Philip, here are my thoughts.

Sometimes I do, sometimes I don't depending on what I am after within the pattern. I agree that an unwaxed silk thread will take more advantage of the properties of the silk.

I think it really boils down to the vision of the angler/tier. Not his or her eyesight, but where does the angler place their choice of emphasis in a pattern. Is it translucence, is it color, is it durability and etc.

Personally, I don't put a lot of emphasis on the translucent properties of thread in most of my flies. A few, but not on most. On the patterns I do, I usually select material other than the thread that display those properties I want. Whether it be a ribbing or the dubbing. Consequently, I wax most of my thread with some kind of wax, adjusting color to desired effect. My reasoning is mostly an emphasis on durability and a lack of noticeable influence in the catching properties of flies with unwaxed thread. It is my opinion that a waxed thread, especially silk, grips material better and cures a bit over time creating a more durable tie. Less frustration for me at the vise, on the water and adds, however slight, to my confidence in the fly.

You have me thinking though, and maybe it is time to trial a few more unwaxed patterns. Never good to get stuck in any rut.

Carl

[Mike Connor]

For a lot of my stuff I prefer unwaxed silk and have done for a very long time. There are a few patterns where waxed silk gives better results. The Greenwell and its variations being a case in point. All depends on what you want to achieve and of course what you believe about certain things. Flies dressed on eyed hooks are basically "throw away" items. It is easy and quick to dress a fly and if you catch a few ( or indeed even only one!) good fish on it it has done its job in my opinion. There is no real argument for making things extremely robust as there once was. Wax is also not required in the construction of flies as it once was. The arguments in regard to translucence ( or the appearance of it at least) are more complex.

For some the use of wax is one of the traditional "articles of faith" and as such inviolate!

TL
MC

[Roadkill]

I agree with Mike and Carl. It is a mixed bag depending on the results you want to atain. I will add that I even sometimes wax waxed threads. Touch dubbing requires a sticky coating to get that desired effect.

Flies dressed on eyed hooks are basically "throw away" items. It is easy and quick to dress a fly and if you catch a few ( or indeed even only one!) good fish on it it has done its job in my opinion.

A perfect philosopy in my book for fishing flies. They shouldn't be to precious to lose or you won't fish them hard enough!

[letumgo]

I tend to think of tying wax as just another tool, to get the desired result in the finished fly. Be the result translucence (although plain old water, or superglue give similar results), color (you can adjust the color of the body by using ligher or darker wax), durability (again there are other ways to craft more durable flies), or simply a way of getting a specific body texture (touch dubbing). I think wax was much more important (necessary) when flies were tyed in hand, or before bobbins were used. Wax helped keep the thread from moving around, whenever the tension is let off while constructing a fly. This is especially important with silk thread, which is inherently slippery. The weight of the modern bobbin helps maintain thread tension during the tying process.

So to answer the question "Should I wax my threads?", I would answer yes and no. It all depends on what reason you are using the wax for, even if it is purely the "tradition". In my case, I think I use wax roughly 1/3rd of the time. When I use wax, there is generally a reason for using it.

[William Anderson]

I'm in the camp that adheres to all the above comments. Fortunately, this is a well balanced group of folks, more eloquent than myself and I showed up at just the right time to say it's an interesting topic. I enjoy tying with and without, for all the reasons stated above. I just don't see a debate on this topic, but I rather like the discourse.

Don't mind me...carry on. (did anyone pick up on the "adhere" pun....I don't do it often, but that one actually was intended.)

[flyfishwithme]

Thanks everyone.
In reality of course, many of the threads available today are pre-waxed and it remains those pure silk threads that are not. I find it interesting that when we describe flies such at the Spiders of Northern England we try and keep the wraps neat and as close together as we can with the aim of seeing each turn. Waxing certainly aids that.
Another experiment I have tried with these 'unwaxed' flies is to lightly 'sand' the threads with an emery board that ladies use to refine their nails. This makes the body 'fuzzy' and gives it a halo effect. I cannot get that with waxed silk thread.
I hope the discussion continues a little further and we get some insights on how people make their silk bodies translucent.

[Mike Connor]

Another experiment I have tried with these 'unwaxed' flies is to lightly 'sand' the threads with an emery board that ladies use to refine their nails. This makes the body 'fuzzy' and gives it a halo effect. I cannot get that with waxed silk thread.
I hope the discussion continues a little further and we get some insights on how people make their silk bodies translucent.

Actually you can get that effect quite easily, you just need to use very fine silk dubbing and a glue stick, ( although you can use wax if you want to), and the "touch" dubbing technique. The halo is controlled by the dubbing length. "Sanding" and other things does work to some extent, but takes time, is a nuisance, and considerably weakens the thread.

TL
MC

[Old Hat]

Another experiment I have tried with these 'unwaxed' flies is to lightly 'sand' the threads with an emery board that ladies use to refine their nails. This makes the body 'fuzzy' and gives it a halo effect. I cannot get that with waxed silk thread.
I hope the discussion continues a little further and we get some insights on how people make their silk bodies translucent.

Actually you can get that effect quite easily, you just need to use very fine silk dubbing and a glue stick, ( although you can use wax if you want to), and the "touch" dubbing technique. The halo is controlled by the dubbing length. "Sanding" and other things does work to some extent, but takes time, is a nuisance, and considerably weakens the thread.

TL
MC

Or you can just have extremely dry and rough fingers like me.

[flyfishwithme]