Winter Brown

[Old Hat]

Any thoughts on the benefits for a smaller construction on a larger hook in this case? (sink rate and gape size can be adjusted with wire gauge and hook selection) Just a casual curiosity.

w

William,

Instead of thinking benefits, I wonder if the tier only had larger hooks available to him/her and simply used them to tie the smaller pattern? Similarly, we see the longer hackled flies tied on "smaller" hooks. Could it be that specific hook size was not so much a consideration to them as we have made it today? Maybe they were more flexible about hook size, and possibly limited to the hooks they had on hand.

Tom

Interesting. I just read a section from The Fly Fisher's Entomology by Ronalds, 1856 quoted in Nemes' Two Centuries of Soft Hackled Flies. It reads "Aim first at neatness not at strength. Adjust the hackle to the size of the hook, by observing that the fibre, or half of the feather, is the exact length of the hook from head to bend". This would support that it was a consideration and, at least to Ronalds, the hackle length was as long as the total length of the hook. As far as hook size, I'm not sure, but there seems to be an effort here to match the hackle to the hook size. This seems fairly consistent to the limited flies from the era I have seen.

[Old Hat]

Ruard - interesting proposal to the peacock question.

[redietz]

[
Interesting. I just read a section from The Fly Fisher's Entomology by Ronalds, 1856 quoted in Nemes' Two Centuries of Soft Hackled Flies. It reads "Aim first at neatness not at strength. Adjust the hackle to the size of the hook, by observing that the fibre, or half of the feather, is the exact length of the hook from head to bend". This would support that it was a consideration and, at least to Ronalds, the hackle length was as long as the total length of the hook. As far as hook size, I'm not sure, but there seems to be an effort here to match the hackle to the hook size. This seems fairly consistent to the limited flies from the era I have seen.

Ronalds, though, was born in London, and fished in Staffordshire. His flies would have been different than those from the North Country.

And, if you look at his images, such as this:

395px-PlateXIII-Green_and_GrayDrake.jpg (14.32 KiB) Viewed 2022 times

the hackles still extend beyond the bend.

[Old Hat]

I don't know Bob that looks about as close to the length he describes to me. I didn't read it as the start of the bend but the total length of the hook. I think your photo supports that. I wasn't trying to say how it should be or comparing different styles or regional tying, only trying to show that it seems hackle length coordinated with the hook size was something that tiers took into consideration in this era. Just to be more clear.

[redietz]

I don't know Bob that looks about as close to the length he describes to me. I didn't read it as the start of the bend but the total length of the hook. I think your photo supports that. I wasn't trying to say how it should be or comparing different styles or regional tying, only trying to show that it seems hackle length coordinated with the hook size was something that tiers took into consideration in this era. Just to be more clear.

I think if you were to collapse the "umbrella" of those hackles against the hook, they would extend almost to the end of the tail. I agree he didn't mean the start of the bend, but the total length of the hook.