Heron Bloa

[flyfishwithme]

Want my secrets hey
This is currently being included in a new book which a fellow forum member and I are in the process of writing, so I would not want to pre-empt too much.
But broadly speaking, I don't think fish mind a moving fly as long as it just under the surface. An exception to this might be a caddis/sedge.
However, to answer you question.
I deploy a variety of tactics with spiders. Upstream, downstream and anything in between. That is because I work the current with the flies. I don't just let them drift, I tease the fish by subtedly making sure the hackles pulsate. So this is what I do when fishing downstream.
I use a longer leader when fishing down. A 20' leader with three flies is not abnormal for me. I try and keep the line off the water and tease the flies across the currents. I find that the first part of the arc is the most enticing to the fish so I don't often let it swing right around. Let's see if this helps a bit:

Let's assume that we are facing a river with quite a few current in it. I don't try and fish them all, I am selective. I also know that the section C is more productive than sections A & B. So I fish out section C take a step forward and cast again. I continue to work the current until I feel that I have done justice to it and then go back up to the top and step further out into the stream to 2, Then I work current b.
Now if I find that fish are rising, I change to a 12' leader and reduce the flies to 2. I then target specific fish and I place myself upstream from the fish, make a cast that I calculate will allow the TOP fly to drift across and in front of the fish and let the flies swing across. Not too far as will probably pick them up and do it again.
Upstream speaks for itself but I keep the 12' leader and add a third fly.
I could be a lot more specific about each type of current and each type of section of a river but that is for the future.
Hope that helps Otter.

[Otter]

Thanks Philip,

I reckon I understand your method and how it works. Controlled downstream english-aussie spidering as against upstream french nymphing.

What you are doing is minimising the disadvantages oft associated with downstream, and I would guess that you would have quite a degree of control of how the flies behave. It really is all down to the leader and long rod - and then learning how to work the currents and flies depending on what you are imitating. I presume your drfits are short and precise, lifting off at the point that you could lose control.

how do you overcome the disadvantages associated with hooking fish downstream. ?

Interesting ideas Philip, all such techniques add to ones ability to master conditions and increases ones knowledge and enjoyment.

Thanks a million for sharing and divulging your hard won secrets, and I don't say that lighly as I can only imagine how many hours you have put into this.

Otter

[flyfishwithme]

Thanks Philip,

I reckon I understand your method and how it works. Controlled downstream english-aussie spidering as against upstream french nymphing.

What you are doing is minimising the disadvantages oft associated with downstream, and I would guess that you would have quite a degree of control of how the flies behave. It really is all down to the leader and long rod - and then learning how to work the currents and flies depending on what you are imitating. I presume your drfits are short and precise, lifting off at the point that you could lose control.

how do you overcome the disadvantages associated with hooking fish downstream. ?

Interesting ideas Philip, all such techniques add to ones ability to master conditions and increases ones knowledge and enjoyment.

Thanks a million for sharing and divulging your hard won secrets, and I don't say that lighly as I can only imagine how many hours you have put into this.

Otter

What? More secrets? You'll be behind the bush next with a video camera.
Otter, it is true that you do miss a few and I find that if it is a slight 'nip' you can often put it back over the fish and induce a take. I find that the numbers of misses attributed with downstream is no more than those missed fishing upstream. For example, the other day I placed 2 spiders over a fish a number of times while standing very close to it. The water was clear and without doubt I saw the fish take and reject the fly. So how many times does this happen, especially on the spate and freestones rivers we fish. I contend a lot.
So I am not disappointed if I miss a fish. Anyway I tricked him into thinking my offering was a least as good as the naturals he was eating.

[Otter]

Philip,

I wouldn't have the patience to hide behind a bush with a video camera. I'd more likely jump out, grab your rod and start fishing.

Missing a few fish is no big deal as long as a few stay on.

I promise not to ask you any more till the book comes out - however I have been known to break promises, so i'll rephrase it, I promise , no more questions until I have tried it out, that should give you a month to finish the book....

[flyfishwithme]

Okay Ruard,
I have just tied a few more today and I hope these are better (okay the tying off is a bit rough but these are my fishing flies and not ones for presentation):

One a little lighter:

And now one that has been run under a tap:

Now just look at that thread. This is Pearsall's which has been waxed. Same fly but the thread is much brighter once wet. By the way, Andrew, the hook is a Kamasan B525 size 16.
I am a trained chef and I'd still eat that.

[GlassJet]

I love that waxed thread!

I wonder if the fly would work with a light dubbing of mole / vole substitute over the waxed purple, just something to give it that bit of movement along the body.

Like the look of the hook as well.

Andrew.

[flyfishwithme]

Andrew,
Let me tell you how I came to tie this.
Last year I tied up some Parachute Kite Imperials and they featured in an Australian magazine You can see the article on my blog in my website. They worked really well on the Wharfe. But I got to wondering. If the Imperial was so good as a dry fly, why would it not work as a soft hackle wet?
Now Malcolm Greenhalgh states in his book 'The Fly Fishers Handbook' :
" Oliver Kite, the inventor of this pattern, insisted that the silhouette trigger' be strengthened by creating a distinct thorax on the fly (bu doubling and redoubling the heron herls just behind the wing). THis is a great pattern: trout will fall for its deceptive powers when they are feeding on a wide range of duns, from march brown and olives, to blue winged olive and pale wateries, Epeorous, Palingenia, Ephoron, the tiny iron blue and Chloroterpes. Because it lacks wings, it is a good dry fly for the beginner to start with ". Now in Kite's book, he does not give any description of how the body is tied and there is a lot of debate surrounding the wrapping of herl. I like it this way and it works fine.
Given that it covers such a wide variety of hatches (the parachute pattern I tied last year did) then there must be something about it. Kite ended up using only this fly when fishing a dry.
I tie them in 14 (3 herls) , 16 (2 herls), 18 & 20 (in the smaller sizes I only use a single heron herl).
Now I am loathe to call it an Imperial or even a Kites Imperial. Indeed the parachute version it is just 'The Kite'.
Now would it work with other materials? Probably so. Indeed quite a lot of the older dry fly patterns could easily be converted to a soft hackle and they would probably work.
But with nearly 60 fish in the past week on the "Heron Bloa", I'll probably not change it. However, I would be interested to see and hear how the same fly dressed with mole, or vole or even water rat would work.

[Ruard]

Hi Philip,

Thank you much better indeed!!

I like fishing flies, flies where you can see some little foults because you enlarge them on a monitor screen.

Greeting