FLYMPH FORUM

Well, there are a number extant, not only Blacker's, but they are far beyond the means of most. This one went for 74.400 UK pounds in 2005;

http://www.bonhams.com/eur/auction/11942/lot/1045/#

If you search on "Dotteril" fly, you will find some of the old patterns.

http://www.google.de/search?q=dotteril+ ... =firefox-a

http://www.google.de/search?q=dotterel+ ... =firefox-a

There are various spellings.

This was considered by many to be an extremely good fly;

http://www.archive.org/stream/northerna ... 6/mode/2up

As somebody recently asked me about the "Hare lug and plover" ( The Dotterel is in fact also a plover), and the use of Golden plover. In my opinion this is the same fly, but using Golden plover as a substitute for the Dotterel. So questions about who invented a particular fly are moot.

TL
MC

The golden plover was also used for various flies of course, see the next page;

http://www.archive.org/stream/northerna ... 0/mode/2up

Feathers from most fairly common birds have been used as hackles by various people. Who first used what is often impossible to determine.

TL
MC

The Dotterel ( Charadrius morinellus 8.5”) is now more or less extinct in the UK although some birds visit Scotland and parts of England when migrating. They are of course now protected. At one time they were netted and shot in huge numbers. Unusual, in that the females are brighter than the males, which reflects their role reversal in caring for their young

Feathers from this bird are no longer obtainable. Golden Plover shoulder and neck hackles are a reasonable substitute, or Starling under covert for instance. These feathers may be tinted with the appropriate marker pen. Also, starling dyed yellow was often used as a substitute.

Skues wrote in “Silk Fur and Feather”

"Dotterel (Dotterel Plover or Foolish Dotterel). - The hackles from the shoulder and back of this bird are perhaps the most highly prized of all of all the feathers of the fly dresser. They are a sort of pale brown dun (coffee and milk colour, with plenty of milk ), with a fine rim of yellow round the edge of the feather, so that every fibre is tipped with a yellow point. They are the model of a honey dun. These feathers are also remarkable for their susceptibility to the slightest motion of air and water and, doubtless , in rapid and tumultuous streams, they give the fly a vivid appearance of life. The two great patterns are Dotterel and Yellow, and Dotterel and Orange. Hackles from breast, neck and back are also used and present much the same characteristics. The bird is now a rare one, and the angler is driven to the use of substitutes - the honey dun feather under the starling’s wing, the gold plover’s shoulder and neck hackles, and the curlew’s shoulder hackle being the substitutes generally used. Of the other feathers of this bird a cursory notice is only necessary. Jackson wings a Yellow Legged Bloa with “inside dotterel or teal” by which one gathers he means the secondary feathers. There would seem to be no reason why the hackle under the wing should not be used, and the primaries are named by some writers for winging purposes.".

The main characteristic of these feathers, compared to various substitutes, is that they are extremely soft and mobile. About the closest substitute is the Golden Plover, but it is not as soft.




Green plover. ( Vanellus vanellus 12” ).Large crested plover, with wattles and spurs Also known as, Lapwing, Peewit, pewit. Used on a few spiders. Substitutes are now mainly used. The exact substitute depends on the feather used.



Golden plover is (Pluvialis apricaria 11” ) there are also many other plovers such as the ringed plover, grey plover, and green plover.

There are a large number of "Plovers". Feathers from a large number of birds were used by various people, many are now unobtainable. In many cases, it is doubtful whether using them would make any better flies than various other feathers. The Dotterel is however an exception here, this is because of the special "soft" property of the feathers.

TL
MC

Good stuff Mike.

Even though these feathers are no longer available it is interesting to know about them. Do you believe that the flies were as good as history would claim or were they made better by popularity ?

Soft and Mobile.
On face value this seems a contradiction as the elastic qualities of game hackles seems to be an important attribute in their suitability for spiders/sofwings etc.. I presume that the Dotterel fibres whilst soft still retain the required ability to regain their shape after manipulation ??

One feather that does not seem to have been overly popular for spiders is hen pheasant coverts, this has always surprised me a little as it takes dye nicely and has some attributes that on face value should make it an excellent option for many things.

One can dress flies with lots of things and sometimes they will catch well enough. None are "infallible", and some owe their fame more to their unobtainability than to their actual utility. Quite a few things that become rare appear to attain almost "magical" powers as a result!

I have handled a few Dotterel feathers, and a few flies dressed with them, but never fished with any. They are indeed very soft.

Hen pheasant coverts were used by a quite a few dressers but nobody ever wrote much about them. One of my favourite beck spiders uses such a feather. This is a variation of mine on a fly which was given to me many many years ago. I added the thorax and the gold wire. This fly works well as a "general" fly, but also when various light coloured flies are about, and for "grass moths".



HOOK. - Hook 12 14 16,smaller if the feathers are obtainable.
SILK. - In various colours to suit. The pheasant feathers may also be easily dyed if desired.
BODY. - First two thirds silk, last third (thorax) dubbed well mixed Hares Ear in shade to suit body colour.
RIB. - Fine gold wire.
HACKLE. - Feather from the outside of a hen Pheasants wing.
HEAD. - Silk as body.

I wrote this about them a long tine ago;

The hen pheasant wings give excellent hackles, from the upper outer coverts mainly. They look like mottled badger hackles. Quite a few dressers I knew swore by these hackles, but they are not mentioned in the literature, and there are no “standard” patterns extant. The whole wings are easily dyed if desired, or just the coverts. I have a couple of my own patterns, the pheasant spider for instance.This hackle is neglected nowadays.The hen Pheasant tail is used for a number of patterns, but is notoriously difficult to use, it splits easily, and is hard to manipulate. The secondaries are used for winging on many flies, usually as slip wings. The primaries are rarely used, the fibres are too short and stiff. The undercoverts which are much lighter in colour, may also be used for various flies, and are easily dyed, but they are rarely used. Hen pheasant wings and skin shown here.





TL
MC

Tkx. Mike.....dynamite thread.

My pleasure, glad you enjoyed it.

TL
MC

Speaking of "manuals".........i've got this one tyin' book called, the FLYTYERS manual by, Mike Davis. And that's exactly the way it's spelled, with only FLYTYERS capitalized, and the rest in small case. It covers nymphs, dries, wets, lures and streamers, salmon flies, to tie a fly, fly patterns, & sea trout flies. Published by Stoeger Publishing Company, So. Hackensack, N.J. It's a great little book. Price on the front is $13.95 and i have no idea where i picked it up..........
The step by step procedures are terrific, as are the illustrations and pics.....160 pages worth of dynamite info............jeeze.........i better get back to the laundry.

I think that is the Fly Tiers Manual by Mike Dawes. It is the only one like that with 160 pages.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Fly-Tiers-Manua ... 0002187280

Stoeger released it in June 1985;

http://www.biblio.com/9780883171301

TL
MC

Yes, i have the one at the bottom link you posted. It's a heck of a good book actually.