Dr. Lyte Palmer

[gingerdun]

While I was researching the new edition of THE ART OF TYING THE WET FLY in June, a collector came forth with a mounted set of 22 flies tied by Leisenring in 1941. One of them was the little-known Dr. Lyte Palmer.
My collection contains a variation tied either by Leisenring or by Pete Hidy that I photographed last spring.
I have come up with my own tentative interpretation of the pattern which is attached here, followed by the two vintage versions.
Leisenring said that the collar hackle should be slightly larger than the the palmered rib, but I have probably exaggerated the size difference. My collar barbs should be shorter, and the barbs of the rib hackle a little longer.

Hook: #12 Grip 14723
Thread: Pearsall's Gossamer Primrose silk
Hackle: Rusty dun hen
Body: Yellow-orange Anchor tapestry wool, single strand, color 8134
Rib 1: Peacock herl
Rib 2: Lagartun oval gold tinsel, small, X-strong
Ribbing hackle: Pale watery dun hen



This one below was tied either by Leisenring or Hidy



The one below was definitely tied by Leisenring in 1941. Unfortunately the hackle barbs match the color of the cloth, so they are very hard to distinguish.



Leisenring's 1941 recipe in ATWF is:

HOOK: 13, 14.
SILK: Orange.
HACKLE: Pure honey dun of rich color and medium stiffness—two turns.
RIB: Fine peacock herl of the sword feather—one of the long, thin fibers.
RIB # 2: Very narrow gold tinsel wound right alongside of the peacock herl rib and in front of it.
RIBBING HACKLE: Pure honey dun hackle slightly smaller than the front hackle.
BODY: Dingy-orange worsted wool.

[flyfishwithme]

Fantastic to see a little know fly as well as an original.

[Mataura mayfly]

Lance, ditto in regard to seeing the original ties, but also grand to see you own interpretation.
I have neither the ability nor knowledge to comment on the length of the respective hackles, to me it is a fantastic looking fly.

I think most of us that were given a basic instruction of this pattern would have counter-wound the second rib to reinforce the herl with the tinsel. Interesting the tinsel follows the herl. The sword herl is delicate stuff and I imagine one or two trout might do some serious shredding on this one.

[tie2fish]

A wonderful concept, Lance. You may think your collar hackle barbs are a tad long, but they look fine to me. And the evolution of the pattern as shown in the three versions is a glimpse into history for us; thank you for posting this.

[CreationBear]

This pattern always puts a smile on my face: nice to know our dour, pragmatic forefathers could bring the bling when they had a mind to. A question, since I can't bear to fish the DLP Ray tied for IBF #17: what's the over/under in terms of the number of trout per fly before one of the rib(s) gives way? I suppose you could "up-armor" this one pretty easily with some extra-fine Lagartun's wire, but it would be a shame to spoil the looks too much.

[DUBBN]

This pattern always puts a smile on my face: nice to know our dour, pragmatic forefathers could bring the bling when they had a mind to. A question, since I can't bear to fish the DLP Ray tied for IBF #17: what's the over/under in terms of the number of trout per fly before one of the rib(s) gives way? I suppose you could "up-armor" this one pretty easily with some extra-fine Lagartun's wire, but it would be a shame to spoil the looks too much.

First off Lance. Great posts and pics. It is fascinating to see the older patterns along side your version. Very well done sir!

I too wonder what the trout per fly ratio would be before the peacock rib gave way. Carefully counter wrapping with the gold rib is one option. If there is no metalic ribbing, I believe a carefully placed counter wrap with the tag end of the working thread/silk would secure the peacock nicely.

Strange, if my average trout is over 14 inches I rarely get a fly chewed up at all. If I am catching a bunch of small Browns under 12 inches they chew the heck out of my flys.

If I have to use hemostats all bets are off. I am going to tear my fly up even if it has been dipped in Gorilla Glue.

[CreationBear]

Strange, if my average trout is over 14 inches I rarely get a fly chewed up at all. If I am catching a bunch of small Browns under 12 inches they chew the heck out of my flys.

Ha, it never fails to blow my mind when y'all out in Colorado talk about your "average" trout...on some of my acidic freestoners a foot-long fish is a veritable Methuselah. (FWIW, that's why almost all my flies are tied on TMC200's --the long shank is enough of a lever that the trout just "pop" off if you hold the hook still.)

[gingerdun]

MM, CB, Dubbn—yes this is a fragile little dingbat, which is undoubtedly why it is so little-known. It is puzzling why Leisenring put it into the book, since he makes such a to-do about building durable flies. But, you know, if the herl snaps, I bet it would still catch fish.

Here is the commentary that he added next to the recipe:

Here is a very good little fly I have found at times very deadly. The dressing was given to me by one of my fishing companions, an expert fly tier, Dr. H. W. Lyte, of Allentown, Pennsylvania, with whom I have spent many most pleasant days studying the natural fly and its imitation on many streams.

He needed an example of a palmer pattern for ATWF, and since this one had some sentimental value, having been invented by his fishing buddy Dr. Lyte, he probably lowered his durability standards just this once. Cross-wrapping the tinsel makes sense. I wonder why he didn't?

Bill, the historical angle really draws me in. Partly because this is a purely American fly, not a borrowed British pattern (so far as I know), I was curious to give it a try, especially since I haven't done much with palmer hackles. I am also thinking I'll try it on the local canoe water to see if the crappies and pumpkinseeds notice. I'm searching for a pattern to use in the warm water swap, so this is part of my research. I plan to try a bigger hook, with tough ostrich instead of peacock. Maybe something that looks like a pale moth.

Feels good to be back at the vise. Been too long.

Lance

[gingerdun]

One comment about the peacock herl in this fly.

Leisenring specified the short herl from the peacock sword feather.
Since I didn't have any of that, I used the bigger herl from the tail.

I wonder how the sword herl compares for toughness?
I just ordered some, so I'll be able to see for myself next week.

Lance

[Smuggler]

This is absolutely stunning GD, wow. I enjoy it when you post, especially little tid-bits of info such as this.
Very cool, thank you sir! Good way to spend lunch oh and.. your fly looks like a winner to me

I've experimented with the toughness of herl vs swords a little bit. And find that swords are more durable.. given where you purchase your materials from, obviously.

The traditional Alexandria wet fly pattern uses swords for wings, I'm sure most of us know but, I've had some days with that fly in which it was taking an absolute beating from the trout and the wings stayed intact almost 100%. Little nips and whatnot but, nothing quite noticeable. I bet if I would have used herl for the wing it would have been a complete different story.

It is worth toying around with though, excellent materials.