FLYMPH FORUM

Hook: Daiichi 1550, size 12
Thread: Pearsall's Gossamer silk, orange
Hackle: Woodcock under covert feather
Head: Peacock herl

Very nice. One of my favorite classics. I have often wondered why the peacock at the head and not at the thorax? I don't believe the fish could really distinguish and it is easier to tie at the thorax. At least for me.

Old Hat wrote:Very nice. One of my favorite classics. I have often wondered why the peacock at the head and not at the thorax? I don't believe the fish could really distinguish and it is easier to tie at the thorax. At least for me.

Izaak very nice tying!!

I think it could be because this imitates a little stonefly and the peacock could be the eyes instead of the thorax.

Greeting

Another skimpy beaut, Tom. This is a beautiful rendition of the classic. Someone in another thread was talking about tying smaller flies on larger hooks. (I won't stray off topic far, but it struck me that this may be a nice example.) To my eye, this is an immaculate proportion for this fly, nice hook and hackle length, body length, etc. and I don't think anyone could argue that this is one of the nicest Winter Browns ever tied. Just spot on. However, as the more historic spiders were depicted as having longer hackles, and those with historic collections can show, this could very easily be a #14 fly on a #12 hook, given that the body would extend to the barb and hackles reach to the back of the bend. It would be just as valid. Since we've been talking about hackle mobility, and profile/proportions I just though it was interesting that my eye is now looking for longer hackles. Personally, I love the proportions of this tie, but have been wondering about the performance/action of longer hackles. Thanks for putting this up as a very high standard for this fly.

Any thoughts on the benefits for a smaller construction on a larger hook in this case? (sink rate and gape size can be adjusted with wire gauge and hook selection) Just a casual curiosity.

On the issue of the herl head, I have read (can't cite it now) the dark contrast and size suggests the dark head of a caddis fly in contrast to the body color. Not that it was specific to particular patterns, it is a common construction on many historic spiders or sometimes offered as an option in the pattern notes. Someone at some point probably gave this further explanation. Another curiosity.

w

William Anderson wrote:
Any thoughts on the benefits for a smaller construction on a larger hook in this case? (sink rate and gape size can be adjusted with wire gauge and hook selection) Just a casual curiosity.

w

William,

Instead of thinking benefits, I wonder if the tier only had larger hooks available to him/her and simply used them to tie the smaller pattern? Similarly, we see the longer hackled flies tied on "smaller" hooks. Could it be that specific hook size was not so much a consideration to them as we have made it today? Maybe they were more flexible about hook size, and possibly limited to the hooks they had on hand.

Tom

Izaak, you have put an extreme SMILE on my face with all these extraordinary ties. They have been such eye candy, it warms my heart. Thank you for sharing your beautiful flies.

Tom, do you happen to know the number or shade of silk you used? It looks kind of antique gold on my monitor.
I have seen Winter Browns ties in just about all shades from mid brown through to yellow- all called Winter Browns, in your opinion is orange the original dressing?

Mataura mayfly wrote:Tom, do you happen to know the number or shade of silk you used? It looks kind of antique gold on my monitor.
I have seen Winter Browns ties in just about all shades from mid brown through to yellow- all called Winter Browns, in your opinion is orange the original dressing?

I'm glad you brought this up. I would have to do some research to answer your question with any confidence. I based my rendition from a photograph found in "A Guide to North Country Flies..." by Mike Harding, 2009 Aurum Press. The recipe called for Pearsall's Gold 6A but in the photo the thread looked orange, and I just decided to go with that. Come to think of it, the photos of Winter Browns I have seen in most other texts have yellow bodies! I should be more careful to note any variance in my selection of materials if they differ from the recipe in the text I am drawing from, and not be so lax and hasty. The author does not give any explanation as to why the thread appears orange in his photo.

The reason I selected to tie this particular pattern was to practice wrapping the peacock herl head, and get the new proportions right...tying in the hackle further behind the eye, and related to that, selecting the right hackle barb length, and selecting herl that had the right width to make a good looking head, not to skinny, not to wide. This was my second attempt. I was happy with my first fly until I was beyond the point of return when making the head. I had applied a very small amount of head cement to the thread wraps before wrapping the herl, and was 1/2 way through wrapping it when I realized the head was turning out too small. I needed a wider herl to make a good looking head.

Tom

Thanks Tom, best reference I have calls for "pale orange silk or floss" (Fly Dressers' Guide- John Veniard). That alone opens up a myriad of colours!
I guess 6A or B would have been the standard of the day, I only have Pearsall Hot Orange on hand, but might give the pattern a try..... if I had any Woodcock wings.

It is an interesting discipline to start the hackle lower on the hook shank than is "normal", you have done well.
I have seen internet reference to the head cement under the herl, probably a good idea. I have also seen the herl near cover the whip finish, that could be a real trick to make work, unless you were to tie off the silk below the thread and swap to a "working" thread of finer denier.

Izaak & Mataura mayfly, Howdy;

Izaak wrote:

Mataura mayfly wrote:Tom, do you happen to know the number or shade of silk you used? It looks kind of antique gold on my monitor.
I have seen Winter Browns ties in just about all shades from mid brown through to yellow- all called Winter Browns, in your opinion is orange the original dressing?

I'm glad you brought this up. I would have to do some research to answer your question with any confidence. I based my rendition from a photograph found in "A Guide to North Country Flies..." by Mike Harding, 2009 Aurum Press. The recipe called for Pearsall's Gold 6A but in the photo the thread looked orange, and I just decided to go with that. Come to think of it, the photos of Winter Browns I have seen in most other texts have yellow bodies! I should be more careful to note any variance in my selection of materials if they differ from the recipe in the text I am drawing from, and not be so lax and hasty. The author does not give any explanation as to why the thread appears orange in his photo.

The reason I selected to tie this particular pattern was to practice wrapping the peacock herl head, and get the new proportions right...tying in the hackle further behind the eye, and related to that, selecting the right hackle barb length, and selecting herl that had the right width to make a good looking head, not to skinny, not to wide. This was my second attempt. I was happy with my first fly until I was beyond the point of return when making the head. I had applied a very small amount of head cement to the thread wraps before wrapping the herl, and was 1/2 way through wrapping it when I realized the head was turning out too small. I needed a wider herl to make a good looking head.

Tom

From my copy of Woolley's "Modern Trout Fly Dressings" 1st edition 1932.
Page 169 Ch. XXII
Yorkshire and North Country Wet Flies
"(112) Winter Brown (Hook, sizes 1-2)
Body.-Orange tying silk dubbed with ruddy
brown wool, the orange silk to show for three
turns at tail.
Hackle.-Dark brown mottled feather from
under woodcock wing.
Head.-Bronze peacock herl."

That's all there is to it... Hope it helps.

hank
hank