Moose Pheasant Mole Grouse

[willowhead]

William, you ever try tying one with a tail?

[Jerry G]

In reading Hanks questions he didn't really ask what fly Williams very nice tie would represent but rather the conditions upon which he would use this fly. For whatever the reason I read past that and expected a reply based on the natural which he felt this fly would best represent. I think that's a pretty natural expectation because quite often many of the flies shared here will have mention of the natural. Then too there is this feeling of achievement when one walks off the stream having seen the natural and at least in our eye we have offered a likable representation that this day the fish also found representable. We have solved the puzzle so to speak and our presentation has come through.

About this particular tie of Williams my first thought about a natural would have been the Early Black Stone. I try to use my soft hackles where there is some broken water so as to create some movement of those hackle barbs as the fly tumbles on a dead drift. In sizes #18 through #14 I'd have to believe this tie would get the trout's interest.

Then too like many that share with us all their talents at the vice, I also tie simply with my imagination having no idea at all when or if this fly will see the water. It allows us to experiment with materials, colors and techniques and who knows maybe one the fish will aprove of to.

Regards, Jerry

[William Anderson]

Mark, I have tied a lot of my soft-hackles with tails, but recently as I'm looking at more and more hatches I second quess whether I'm creating one of the negative triggers by using the wrong tail. Mayfly dun or nymph? Stonefly nymph biot tails or adults, caddis adults or caddis pupa with no tail. If I really am trying to match a specific bug in entomological terms, yes, add the additional appendage if you believe it is a positive trigger. But I've heard from enough guys that it didn't make a difference, and I've second guessed myself streamside and clipped tails off, that I'm not sure how I might proceed from here on. It's an evolution of experience and preferences. I think this one would be very handsome with body length tails for a drowned stonefly adult. I like the more accurate approach, but I am considering the soft-hackle school where being careful as to avoid any hinderence to movement is paramount. They are all theories, most of them correct and mostly ignored by the trout anyway. But I do have to make decisions and they are based on some rationale. God help us all.

In reading Hanks questions he didn't really ask what fly Williams very nice tie would represent but rather the conditions upon which he would use this fly. For whatever the reason I read past that and expected a reply based on the natural which he felt this fly would best represent. I think that's a pretty natural expectation because quite often many of the flies shared here will have mention of the natural. Then too there is this feeling of achievement when one walks off the stream having seen the natural and at least in our eye we have offered a likable representation that this day the fish also found representable. We have solved the puzzle so to speak and our presentation has come through.

About this particular tie of Williams my first thought about a natural would have been the Early Black Stone. I try to use my soft hackles where there is some broken water so as to create some movement of those hackle barbs as the fly tumbles on a dead drift. In sizes #18 through #14 I'd have to believe this tie would get the trout's interest.

Then too like many that share with us all their talents at the vice, I also tie simply with my imagination having no idea at all when or if this fly will see the water. It allows us to experiment with materials, colors and techniques and who knows maybe one the fish will aprove of to.

Regards, Jerry

Jerry, where were you a couple of hours ago when I was mucking up the waters with my run-on sentences? I read Hank's question with a knee-jerk reaction to address the natural, jumping over the broader questions. All of the other questions are answered by addressing the natural, but only if you are very familiar with the behavior and habitats of each. If you know when early season little black stoneflies become active, you also know the water type, the conditions and the methods for imitating them. Mention that it might represent a caddis includes all the implications of time and place and manner to present them. A mistake on my part, one of several, to not hear what Hank was asking. This is not only a resemblence to many aquatic insects in the streams here in the East, but is also a technique that I hadn't tried quite like it before, and it seems obvious that it may be taken a step further by adding the tails of mayfly's or a shuck, or the biot tails of stoneflies, or the thickened midsection of a caddis. Simple adaptations for variations on a theme. Am I saying obvious things in far too many words? I'm going back to bed. Please, someone save this thread from what I've done to it. Not another word from me until I get rid of today's funk. Promise.

w

[willowhead]

Don't worry bout it William.........you did a great job..........and it'll be even better........MO Better, when you do one with a tail and post a pic.

[michaelgmcgraw]

Yeah, the tail thing. . . I thought I was the only pervert who put tails on most of my soft hackles

[willowhead]

It don't mean a thing, if it aint got that swing.....know what i mean? do wha do wha do wha do wha do wha do wha do wha.....

[hankaye]

Jerry G, Howdy;

I have read on this forum very many times as to how these (flymphs), are more, close to but .... could also be .....
than they are exact duplicates of anything. That is why I framed my question the way I did.
I appreciate that you took the answer a bit further along the path. Requires more thought and a larger data base
and there is nothing wrong in pursuing that path.

A few months back Mark (soft-hackle), had started a thread about "Conjecture" you can search it out.
I mentioned that I had read a preview page or few from the Amazon site from Dave Hughes' book about
Bug ID. I said something about being similar to the "other" fisherman on one of the pages. What the "Other" guy did for Bug ID was this ...
remove his hat, make a quick scoop from the top of some plant life, look it over and proclaimed something to the effect of...

"Look like size 14 brown with legs..."

That's the way I went about it last week when I went fishing. When it comes to bugs I have NO idea what, what is, .......
but caught my first two trout on flys I tyed myself. I'll quit thumpin' my chest when it hurts to much or it hurts to breath. Caught one on a muskrat a'la DUBBN cause I saw a bug that looked something like the fly, and the other on an ant a'la Ray (letumgo), there were ALOT of ants crawling around there.

But thanks for exploring further...

hank

While I was writting this I see that several others have jumped in...

Dub-ya, Howdy;

Ya did just fine! My knowledge base is far to shallow to KNOW what water conditions are to be expected for umpty-squat to show itself.
This is my first summer of fly fishing for TROUT. My learning curve still resembles a vertical structure directly in fromt of me. I promise to work on the bug ID stuff. . Honest...

hank

[Jerry G]

Hank absolutely nothing wrong with being a little elated with your first fly fishing achievements. That's the neat thing I think about these message boards. They if we allow them can serve as a reminder to those of us that may have been at this for a while, what beginning was like. Certainly each of us has a story of what it was like for us, those first try's.

Hank I think it safe to say whether we talk about bug IDing, fishing techniques, where to, when to and how to the sport is as simple or complex as you wish to make it. Although there are many knowledgeable individuals on the sport for anyone to say they have all the answers would only indicate that they chose to quit learning.

Have fun with it Hank.

Regards, Jerry

[willowhead]

Congratz hank.....you been baptized. Now you can find out what religion is REALLY all about.

[William Anderson]

Here's a pic of one tied with turkey tail herls twisted between the moose mane hairs. It's very irregular, but I thought it was interesting. I need to get the station out and twist some more stuff together just for giggles and yes, I'll add a tail or two.





This is more irregular than the others in this set, but I liked it, maybe because it didn't work as well, or because it's just different.

w