Whip finishing question

[Hans Weilenmann]

I tried finishing towards the eye. But then I have a tag showing at the eye, which is more noticeable to me. Maybe it just needs more practice. Not sure. Dubbn, I may be with you on this one!

Color me puzzled, Kelly. The tag end projects to left of the FIRST turn of the whip finish (this assumes a right handed tier), so if you are wrapping towards the eye there is no way the tag end will show right at eye.

Best look again what you are actually doing.

Cheers,
Hans W

[DUBBN]

This is one of those (many) times in my life where I was right, thought I was wrong, but eneded up being confused.

[Hans Weilenmann]

This is one of those (many) times in my life where I was right, thought I was wrong, but eneded up being confused.

Hate to burst your bubble, m'friend, but you will really be much better off making the whip finish turns towards the head.

Cheers,
Hans W

[DUBBN]

Hans, you will never burst my bubble.

Izaaks post got me looking at my whip finishes on patterns I had already photographed.

Izaak said, "They make a lot of sense. I never really paid much attention to whip finishing until I started taking photos of my flies and saw that some looked better than others! "

The whip finishes going to the eye look cleaner than the ones going to the body. As far as the thread not coming unwound? I dont know, but I havent had an issue doing it the "wrong" way. This is a no brainer even for me.

In my opinion, the best thing about this thread (no pun intended) is, it demonstrates that when whip finishing proper thread control is still paramount. I watch alot of fly tying on YouTube. There are alot of tyers that will whip a with fly 5 to 10 wraps letting the thread fall randomly on the head. This pretty much makes for an over sized, clumsy looking head. For me, 3 seems to be my magic number whether going to the body (wrong) or to the eye (correct).

[Hans Weilenmann]

Here is my thought. It takes as much effort to do it 'correct', as it does to do it 'incorrect'. There is no reason I can see to do it other than 'correct'

For trout size patterns three turns, or occasionally four, is also what I do on my flies - and my tying videos

Cheers,
Hans W

[letumgo]

"when whip finishing proper thread control is still paramount. I watch alot of fly tying on YouTube. There are alot of tyers that will whip a with fly 5 to 10 wraps letting the thread fall randomly on the head. This pretty much makes for an over sized, clumsy looking head. For me, 3 seems to be my magic number whether going to the body (wrong) or to the eye (correct)."

Wayne - I am in complete agreement, about the importance of maintaining proper thread control. It took me a long time to learn the importance of each wrap of thread. As I tried my hand at smaller and smaller flies, this became more obvious. Thread control and thread placement (same thing really) became critical when I started to work with silk bodied flies (the damn things show every lump bump and misplaced wrap).

Hans - Just to be clear, Wayne's comment about doing it wrong, was intended to be humorous.

I have enjoyed this thread very much. Tom's question prompted a great discussion about one of the finer details of our craft. It is very interesting to hear the various comments. I generally use 4 or 5 wraps on my whip finishes. A single layer whip finish for "pretty" flies (read as photo worthy) and a double layer whip finish (head of the fly is whip finished twice/one layer over the top of the other) on "fishing" flies. After reading these posts, I think I will try using a three-wrap whip finish. Certainly worth a try.

[Hans Weilenmann]

Hans - Just to be clear, Wayne's comment about doing it wrong, was intended to be humorous.

That was well understood, Ray, hence the quotes around 'correct', etc

Cheers,
Hans W

[Old Hat]

I am in total agreement with this discussion on thread control. I see way too many tiers,especially those learning, that have no sense of thread control. Just start lashing and you can tie a fly seems to be t he standard teachings of late. In my 4-H club all my new tiers have to show me well controlled perfectly smooth bodies and nicely formed tie off at the head before I let them move on to tying in any material. I'm not saying bodies have to be perfect to have a good fly but you need to understand thread control and practice it to be a good tier. This is one of my pet peeves in tying as you can see.

[William Anderson]

This has been a great thread. I would be hard pressed to take issue with any of the sound comments offered so far. However, I have a question taking the minutea a bit further. I tie my hackles in by the stem, feather tip extending over the eye and once I've made my hackle wraps and bring the tying thread up through the hackle, I am often left with the fore of the hackle leaning forward, or at least not making the sweeping backward set that I usually like to achieve. Especially if I've added a hint of dubbing to the thread before bringing it forward. So...with the tying thread hanging in front of the hackle, just behind the eye, I lick my thumb and middle finger, wipe it nearly dry on my leg and stroke all the hackles/stray thorax and all back, careful to avoid the hook point on the way back. I then take a turn or two back toward the hackle - tight turns, then take one or maybe two if needed, turns with less tension against the hackle giving it the set and enough structure to keep them in that position. So now I have four wraps behind the eye and I've not even started the whip finish. Now I can begin the whip finish forward toward the eye, typically 4-5 turns. With fine 14/0, flat tying thread, even this leaves a very acceptable head, to my eye. It's not so easy with pearsall's silk and takes more attention and usually some counting.

anyone have other techniques or suggestions for using the thread to help make the hackle set back without all the extra wraps? Like I said, I'm not unhappy with my results, but there is some room for photogenic improvement and would like to hear how this is addressed. thanks.

w

[DUBBN]

I too tie in by the stem. I wrap the hackle back towards the body. I secure the hackle tip with one turn of thread, then wrap through the hackle advancing towards, but not to the eye. As soon as the thread has emerged through the hackle I stop. At this point there is no thread build up between the hackle and the eye. Like you I sweep the barbules back and secure them with one wrap. Still no build up of thread between the feather and eye. I then whip finish with three wraps moving towards the eye.