FLYMPH FORUM

DUBBN wrote:Yes, I always wrap clockwise(Right Hander) , away from me. Like the small hackle being tyed in front of the large hackle I will probably find out this is wrong, but I wont change this either.

I better change my answer. I was referring to "my" thread wrapping technique. I too counter wrap my rib material if it is being wrapped over Peacock, or Pheasant Tail.

DUBBN wrote:Like the small hackle being tyed in front of the large hackle I will probably find out this is wrong, but I wont change this either.

*chuckle*

You better be joking here on the "this is wrong". There are very few things "wrong" in tying - and you may quote me

Cheers,
Hans W

Everyone, Thanks for humoring my vague and dull-witted question. A better question would have been regarding parallel wraps v. criss-cross or counter wraps. And Hans is right, one needs to specify what is being wrapped. It appears that the standard is to achieve the stronger cross-wraps when possible, such as ribbing over herl, or thread over hackle. I get a little confused with palmer ties, since I have photographic evidence of flies tied both ways, with body, hackle and ribbing all parallel with each other, and others with cross-wraps.

Off Topic, Herl bodies——We touched on several interesting ways to tie herl onto the hook, which, considering the antiquity of herl-body flies, could be a whole string unto itself. I've been following the Leisenring method of three herls roped in with the tying thread before wrapping. This is nowhere near as lush and fluffy as that gorgeous Red Tag in Flyfishwithme's post, but Leisenring didn't like to use the fragile herl strands without reinforcement. Maybe he was over-compensating. In the examples of Leisenring's herl flies like the Brown Hackle, he gets a little taper, thickening toward the thorax, which raises questions. How did he do it? The only way I could figure out was to wrap herl and thread rope back and forth on top of itself near the hackle, adding a layer or two, before tying it down. Seems to do the job.

Anyway, this string has done its job of focusing my mind on the problem. It will help me in writing the captions for the how-to-sequences. Once again, the forum steps up to help, with great ideas and examples. Thank you all.

Lance

gingerdun wrote:It appears that the standard is to achieve the stronger cross-wraps when possible, such as ribbing over herl, or thread over hackle.

Lance,

Cross-wraps are a phenomenon often misunderstood. Ray already described this in his post, but it bears repeating: when a second material overlaps the earlier material, and the angle, the slant, of the wraps are different, this is a 'cross-wrap'. It is not dependent on one slant being bottom left to top right, and the other bottom right to top left.

Translate this to a dubbed body, where for example there were a dozen turns of thread, and a ribbing, with say five turns of the material to cover the same distance - this results to all practical, as well as theoretical, intent in a cross-wrap.

Cheers,
Hans W

Hans,
Thanks for expanding on this explanation. Makes complete sense, and explains the palmer flies that I was examining. By being of different frequencies, or angles, the upper wraps crossed and reinforced the lower wraps. I'm not sure that I have ever seen these principles spelled out in a tying manual, but it seems to be fundamental information that I have been slow to fully understand. All my life, I've been a slow learner. Fortunately, once I learn it, I hold on to it like a bulldog. My dear father must me looking down on me with amusement as I struggle to learn all the things that he wanted to teach me, but I was not ready to learn until 38 years after he passed away. Sigh.

Gracias,

Lance

I'll add this. If you wrap your tying thread clockwise and are cross wrapping counter clockwise ( over clockwise wraps) generally leads to this problem the tying off turns of thread want to push the counter clockwise re inforncement turns loose.
Tapered Peacock bodies done a la Leisenring technique are achieved by tying yje peacock on at the tip . It takes some practice to get it started , you have to be gentle and not over twist the rope, after a few wraps you can twist the rope tighter.
Jim

GD, you've been given some great information. The kind of thing I would have never found if not for the continuous dialogue of the forum, rather than reading chapter after chapter of the books in my library. It's a wonderful thing. I suspect your dad would have enjoyed being able to share these nuances so readily.

I too was perplexed by the tapers in herl bodies until someone here explained it a few years ago. Again, if I were relying on tying books, or buying the peacock herl packs offered at the fly shop, I would get untapered bodies (which isn't wrong, just doesn't match some of the beautiful pics on Hans' site). Tying in by the tips requires a couple of soft securing wraps before bringing the herl forward, rather than a tight binding wrap which will snap the herl everytime. At least that's how I finally managed. This shouldn't cause any issues, especially with all the reinforcing techniques you've been presented with here. Great thread.

w

I tie right handed. I tie thread like Ray. I wind over the hook, away from me. I wrap tinsel towards me, not away.