Dr. Lyte Palmer

[William Anderson]

I love seeing these as well. Lance, your pattern really comes together and I like the difference in the hackle lengths. Great job with the palmer body. I can't wait to see what you come up with for the swap.

I noted in the quote from the recipe by JL that he and Dr. Lyte spent time studying the insects, and what they extracted for this pattern was not the kind of bits and pieces imitation you would expect, but rather the attributes that will induce a take. It's one of the things I admire most about these flies.

Great to see a new LH fly.

w

[CreationBear]

I noted in the quote from the recipe by JL that he and Dr. Lyte spent time studying the insects, and what they extracted for this pattern was not the kind of bits and pieces imitation you would expect, but rather the attributes that will induce a take.

Very LaFontaine-ish! Is the recipe in the public domain, or still under wraps (pre-publication wise)?

Otherwise, it's a great looking pattern--I wouldn't be surprised if there's a bit of a Tellico Nymph in its bloodline somewhere...the timeline (late '30's to early '40's) makes it seem possible.

[Roadkill]

gingerdun,

Beautiful fly!

If you don't want to counter rib for durability, you might like to try the technique of old Atlantic salmon Fly tyers. Let the peacock and palmnered hackle wraps lie tight up against the Oval Tinsel which will then provide a little more protection.

[letumgo]

Lance - Wonderful post! I love seeing the flies & reading the various posts. This pattern caught my attention when I read it in JL's book. I need to revisit this pattern, now that I can see what it is supposed to look like.

[William Anderson]

I noted in the quote from the recipe by JL that he and Dr. Lyte spent time studying the insects, and what they extracted for this pattern was not the kind of bits and pieces imitation you would expect, but rather the attributes that will induce a take.

Very LaFontaine-ish! Is the recipe in the public domain, or still under wraps (pre-publication wise)?

Otherwise, it's a great looking pattern--I wouldn't be surprised if there's a bit of a Tellico Nymph in its bloodline somewhere...the timeline (late '30's to early '40's) makes it seem possible.

Jon, I won't describe this well and probably shouldn't, but that doesn't usually stop me. In my simple way when I read "studying the natural fly and its imitation on many streams" my first thought was color matching, markings, proportions, etc, and smiled when I realized the fly listed was orange, with peacock sword and gold tinsel and a fully palmered body, which sounds garish compared to his more imitative patterns. This must be one of the fancier patterns. If they were studying attributes that induce a take, that suggests to me an emphasis on studying trout, where studying naturals for imitation would result in a more subtle pattern. But it is Fontaine-like (not to give Fontaine that much credit as he comes very late to the game in terms of studying and writing about insect behavior). It just struck me that at first I considered this an anomoly, but needed to look again to realize the imitative qualities. I'm slower than some. The Tellico Nymph is a nice comparison. I'd love to add a few of these to my box. Especially the LH version.

[gingerdun]

I wouldn't be surprised if there's a bit of a Tellico Nymph in its bloodline somewhere...the timeline (late '30's to early '40's) makes it seem possible.

Jon,
I didn't know about the Tellico Nymph. That is a plausible connection for sure, borrowing part of one pattern to make a new one. That's seems to be how it works.

Another source for this hybrid fly may have been the Orange Asher which is the item on the left below.



Roadkill, that's a good idea, partially protecting the peacock with the other ribs.
And Ray, you've already probably done the best version of Dr Lyte since JL. Wanna post it in this stream? Go ahead.

And William, you think that there is some imitation going on here, and not just a full-blown attractor? If there is imitation, what would it be? A little caterpillar?
Just looks like the kind of confection that any self-respecting fish would be a damned fool to pass up.

Lance

[CreationBear]

Great thread, as always.

If there is imitation, what would it be? A little caterpillar?

In my neck of the woods (a few miles from the eponymous Tellico River) I think the consensus is that the Tellico Nymph is a pretty close imitation of a cased caddis larvae--AKA "stickbait" by the oldtimers who weren't above prising a few out of their cases when the idea for a fish-fry struck 'em.

[DUBBN]

gingerdun, I hope you dont mind me butting in, but I see imitation aswell. Once wet, I do not think it's a stretch to say emerging caddis. I can alos see Scud and Cress Bugs. In large sizes dont discount Cranefly Larva. I know the palmered hackle looks spikey when dry, but I try to imagine what it looks like when wet (water logged), and submerged.

[CreationBear]

but I try to imagine what it looks like when wet (water logged), and submerged.

You know, one of the things I've learned from pestering the salmon/steelhead tyers like Roadkill, Old Hat, and Ray is just how natural even a "garish" fly can look in its "natural habitat"--amazing how hackle, peacock, and silk blend together. Of course, my dumb little trout are hardwired to take most anything: "Eat it, it might be food" seems to be their motto (which is pretty close to my own, come to think of it. )

[gingerdun]

I've been missing the forum, distracted by too many other things crashing in on me from all directions.
But I wanted to revive this string because I finally got some of those peacock sword feathers that Leisenring specified for Dr. Lyte Palmer.
I was ignorant about peacock, but I have now learned that there was a reason that Leisenring specified the sword feather herl.
Here's the line from the recipe in ATWF:

RIB Fine peacock herl of the sword feather—one of the long, thin fibers.

Mataura Mayfly sent me a sword feather (Thanks Jeff!).
I could see for myself that the long herl has shorter fibers than the standard ones from the eye plumes. But more importantly, the shaft is noticeably stronger, especially on the lower half of the long herl. Apparently, that is how Leisenring justified using the single strand. It is tough enough to hold up, so long as it is from the sword feather. Smuggler pointed out that the shorter, more ornamental herls from the opposite side of the shaft are famous for being used in the Alexandria fly. I wonder how many patterns specify the long sword herls?

So I tried tying the pattern again, this time more faithful to Leisenring's vintage models that I have photographed.



Hook: 14 Cabela model 02 barbless dry fly hook, standard shank length
Silk: Pearsall's gold
Collar hackle: pure honey hen, off an old skin from the 1970s
Body: dingy orange tapestry wool, single strand
Rib 1: fine peacock herl of the sword feather, one of the long, thin fibers
Rib 2: gold tinsel
Rib 3: cream hen (I tried one of the old honey hen feathers, but the small ones were too dry and brittle to be tied in at the tip. Snapped right off when I started to palmer it. I need to get a fresh skin.)

Next time (I've become rather fond of it by now) I think I'll wrap the palmer hackle right on top of the herl and tinsel, to leave more of the wool body showing. I think that's what Leisenring did.
It is tricky tying off those three ribs to make a nice transition to the collar. I needed enough silk wrapping to keep the ribs secure, but not so many that it creates a lumpy gap between the ribs and the collar. It looks so simple, but I find this pattern really difficult to get right.




I am attracted to this fly partly because it is a purely American variation of familiar British palmer flies. That got me thinking that American trout flies are similar to folk songs in that a lot of them migrated here from the British Isles, acquiring new verses and melodies.