FLYMPH FORUM

Bringing a dead thread back to life, the pattern does indeed work -- I tried it last night on the Breeches. It took several browns during the brief white fly hatch.

Love the fly William. Incredibly neat work. I am a long way from that standard. You have given me an idea here! What about a pair of wings tied flat along the shank and a slightly shorter hackle? Kinda Clyde style!!

redietz wrote:Bringing a dead thread back to life, the pattern does indeed work -- I tried it last night on the Breeches. It took several browns during the brief white fly hatch.

Bob, I'm glad to hear it! I had confidence in the material combination for that fly. So glad you tied it, tried it. After seeing your version tied for the swap I went back and tied some on a shorter hook and having the actual bugs in hand last Friday proved your sizing to be spot on.

I later tied a number of these without the biot and without tails using a slender taper snow shoe hare underfur for the body. I got to fish it Friday pm as a dropper with the original version on point. The water was nearly chocolate milk Friday pm and the hatch was just a pitiful display with only 2-3 rises seen over a few hours. Disappointing to say the least. Eric took one brown on his hex nymph imitation (a few big hex spinners in the air) and I took a beaut brown on the sans biot sans tail version. So the evening was not a wash. Could have been great but not this trip.

I was complaining to Eric as I tied on my pre-rigged duo that the version sans biot was just way too subtle and likely too hard to see in the dusk and in such murky water. It might have been 5 mins after making the remark that I hooked up. The dubbing is very translucent and the naturals seem so vivid, subtle, but very visible pale white. I saved one of the newer flies for a pic but haven't been down to shoot it. It's Tuesday morning and I still haven't unpacked my gear from the truck. I'll get to it.

Dave, I'm sure a wing could be fashioned if it were sparse enough. These flies have a very soft pale wing almost like water so anything with too much structure or density would likely result in diminishing returns. A soft hackle collar does all the right things for this hatch. Your imitation, when the hatch is on and fish are feeding, needs to compete with thousands of naturals in tight quarters so the action of the imitation makes a difference for the way I like to fish. Some guys see all the splashing and grab dry flies, not a bad idea, but I like to be able to swing spiders to risers after dark rather than hoping my drift is drag free with no way of seeing. When it's good, it's hard not catch fish during this hatch, but it's not a given either. I hope to get up there one more evening before the end of the fun this season.

William,

Great fly! I missed this thread earlier while I was traveling but it is a wonderful combination of materials well suited to the bug you are imitating.

Bill

Nice tie William. I love turkey biot bodies & the white is enticing. This might fish for a white epeorus species that appears here in mid-July, over which I've only had real success with the dry in white, while a PTN fishes for the nymph/emerger.

I'm curious, do you mean this fly to fish for the emerger, or drowned/cripple adult?

Also, a related question, though not entirely on-topic: Pete Hidy, as I understand it, coined the term 'flymph' before he began experimenting with patterns hackled through the thorax, meaning, a nymph in the process of transitioning to adult, by definition, an 'emerger', & he reiterates that description in a 1960 Sports Illustrated article, without mention, that I can remember, of a hackled thorax defining the style. Yet, several times, I've read posters here refer to the hackle-over-thorax as the only style defining a flymph; which, in my view, seems to narrow & obscure the definition. Perhaps you can square me away on this. Thanks.

Steve

Roadkill wrote:William,

Great fly! I missed this thread earlier while I was traveling but it is a wonderful combination of materials well suited to the bug you are imitating.

Bill

Bill, thanks for the kind comment.

UC Steve wrote:Nice tie William. I love turkey biot bodies & the white is enticing. This might fish for a white epeorus species that appears here in mid-July, over which I've only had real success with the dry in white, while a PTN fishes for the nymph/emerger.

I'm curious, do you mean this fly to fish for the emerger, or drowned/cripple adult?

Steve

Steve, the E. luekon mayfly hatch on the Breeches in Central PA is likely the same as yours. A couple of warm weeks in August we get a beautiful hatch within some drainages. The flies vary in size quite a bit from #16's and #14's on average streams to #10's on the larger water. The Breeches is one of the most popular and regular. Although I haven't heard of great hatches yet this year. I say that because the behavior of the flies as swimming nymphs, and their color/texture/action is likely the same. Our own WiFlyFisher has an amazing site and does a wonderful job of covering this hatch for his area in Wisconsin.

http://www.wiflyfisher.com/ephoron-leuk ... -hatch.asp

There certainly must be folks who tie a nymph stage for this fly, but I haven't. I guess because I haven't heard a lot of chatter about success with nymphs for this hatch. The most success I've had with this hatch comes from drifting flymphs, upstream and down, dead drift and on the swing. The nymphs are creamy swimmers, and I see splashy rises to emergers as well as confident takes to duns and cripples. I can't say I would do anything differently as I dead drift spiders and flymphs high and low, representing drowns and cripples and emergers as they begin to swim to the surface. Last year I remember treating my flymphs with FrogFanny to keep them in the surface once darkness set in. That worked out great.

I would love to hear from others who manage this hatch better than I do on the techniques and successes they've used. Some of you guys have been fishing this hatch for many decades.

UC Steve wrote: Also, a related question, though not entirely on-topic: Pete Hidy, as I understand it, coined the term 'flymph' before he began experimenting with patterns hackled through the thorax, meaning, a nymph in the process of transitioning to adult, by definition, an 'emerger', & he reiterates that description in a 1960 Sports Illustrated article, without mention, that I can remember, of a hackled thorax defining the style. Yet, several times, I've read posters here refer to the hackle-over-thorax as the only style defining a flymph; which, in my view, seems to narrow & obscure the definition. Perhaps you can square me away on this. Thanks.

Steve

This would probably be best as a separate topic, but it can be found throughout this site over the years and often with some disagreement. I'll give it a quick go here. To my understanding from reading what's available from the primary source texts by JL and PH, not from all the secondary texts, there are three primary features in defining a flymph. One is the presence of a soft hackle collar, without reference to palmering through the thorax, the second is the durable dubbed body, constructed in a way that would allow the underbody (usually the tying silk color) to be visible when wet. And third, the presentation of this wingless-wet in a manner that stimulates a take by imitating an emerger.

This is from the top of my head, which can cause me a lot of trouble, but regarding the attribute that is most commonly used to define a flymph, as opposed to other wingless-wets, soft-hackles and spiders, it is the lively and durable dubbed body that allows the underbody to show through. As I've said in other posts, rigid definitions be damned. Hidy carried Leisenring's wet flies, inspired by Skues and Stewart forward but was far from pedantic and his wallet shows a range of experimentation and variety.

Bob Deitz posted this elsewhere on the forum and it comes up from time to time.

"Well, this is how "flymph" is defined in The Art of Tying the Wet Fly & Fishing the Flymph : 'A WINGLESS ARTIFICIAL FLY with a soft, translucent body of fur or wool which blends with the undercolor of the tying thread when wet, utilizing soft hackle fibers easily activated by the currents to give the effect of an insect alive in the water, and strategically cast diagonally upstream or across for the trout to take just below or within a few inches of the surface film.' "

"Nothing about a thorax at all (although nothing to preclude it, either), nothing about palmering, and many of the examples in the book use other than hen hackle. So, I would think that a better definition to distinguish flymphs from other soft hackles would simply be the presence of a "soft, translucent body of fur or wool which blends with the undercolor of the tying thread when wet."

Per Lance Hidy:

I was going to comment that I believe it was Dave Hughes who suggested (or stated) that the hackle on a flymph should be palmered through the thorax. I went back to find Lance's comment on this topic.

"I am not aware that my father ever claimed to have originated the thorax flymph (or any other tying technique for that matter). He did show Dave Hughes how he tied it, and then Dave published Pete's method in Wet Flies. But I have always assumed that it was an ancient technique just being kept alive by the likes of Pete and Dave. Be interesting to know the origins of the thorax flymph. - Lance"

I'm not sure that "squares this away" for you, but it's interesting.

w

William, thanks. The link is informative & the photo of the nymph answers my question. Your imitation covers all phases. This insect is a soft hackler’s dream – like March brown & black quill.

I’m not sure if the white mayfly here is western white fly. It could be one of a handful of species we call Light Cahill or Pale Evening Dun. I need to capture an adult for I.D. For many years the upper Columbia has been void of mayflies due to chemical pollution from a smelter in B.C., which, finally, quit dumping about 15 years ago. Mayflies & stoneflies are coming back & we find new species appearing. We’ve only been seeing the white mayfly for a few years, hatches are sparse & spotty, & unusual, as they emerge mid-afternoon on hot/bright July days – & they do get trout up & going, also unusual, as UC trout are extremely light sensitive. Must be a good tasting bug. I will try your imitation over these.

Looking at photos of the duns, I’d be tempted to try a version with gold/brown thorax & watery-gray hackle, possibly coot.

And thanks for the 'flymph' input. I agree, & will let the definition stand as I already understand it. Language inevitably evolves toward precision & usefulness, & that will happen.

Your compatriot

During an multiple e-mail exchange in which William A and I discussed checking out the Yellow Breeches again for the white flies, I looked at my supply of patterns and realized that they were all too large, having been tied for smallmounth on the Susquehanna River. Borrowing shamelessly from William's stellar "Partridge and Biot White fly", I produced a dozen of these in Size #14 with no tail and plain white soft hackle. Ever supportive, he suggested that I post it here.