FLYMPH FORUM

If he was slapped by his teacher for using too much dubbing then his teacher needs a good slapping for failing in his task.
As to his finished Partidge and Orange I can find no flaw in it and would happily place it neatly in my fly box under the heading of possibilty as Fat juicy sedge pupa, I doubt though that a fat juicy sedge pupa was the intention. His watchet is equally a masterpeice in how to make a simple job difficult. That however is his affair and it is the finished fly that we must concern ourselves with and not his tying techniques. If his Watchet is intended as an Iron Blue imitation the Iron blues on his water must be overfed brutes for my experience of them from observation on the water and from literature leads to me to consider them as dainty fragile creatures.

The problem with all of this sort of stuff is as age old as angling itself. Fly fishing is such a wide and varied experience that trying to place everything neatly in a box is fraught with danger, where does one draw the line. Where does one draw the line in time to say that this is the definitive north country style for within such seemingly narrow focus there will still be variation. Where does the evolution of a north Country Flies stop ?.

The ability to fish a particular type of fly properly so that it behaves in the correct manner, at the right time on the right water as a representation of a natural is of far greater importance than whether or not the silk creeps past the barb. If you stop at the barb on a normal shank hook and I stop at the bend on a short shank hook are our flies intrinsically different to a trout ?, would they fish differently ?. Surely the body of a fly should work within the parameters of the body length of a natural where you believe the length of a body to be of importance. If you were to say however that a normal shank hook fishes these style of flies better than a short shank that would be an alltogether different matter.

Of more fundamental importance to all of this is that one mans Watchet may differ greatly from anothers and if both gain equal success with their watchets then either the Trout does not mind or that they fish them in a different manner or the nature of their river negates the flaws in either Watchet to make them seem as food to a trout or indeed that one mans watchet represents a different stage of the Iron Blue. Neither may of course be the ultimate Iron blue wet and both may fall slightly short of being so. Yet should they work on each mans river when Iron Blues are on the menu and catch the angler a few trout then both patterns have fullfilled their obgligaion to their master.

It would seem to me that most desirable knowledge of the lineage of these flies is in the understanding of what each represents and how and when best to fish them and on what types of water they fish most effectively. Kwowing who wrote the first list while a noble bit of information will not yield me or anyone else a single trout.

Undoubtedly there's something on the previous page i've missed.....i c the name Otter...........i just immediately head right there. Better back up and investigate. This outta be interesting.

I like Otter's take: it reminds me of G.K. Chesterton's famous "fence;" i.e. if you find one across the road you want to travel, don't be to quick to knock it down unless you are quite sure you know why it was put there in the first place. Part of the fun of tying traditional patterns, I suppose, is learning who put the fence there and why.

CreationBear wrote:I like Otter's take: it reminds me of G.K. Chesterton's famous "fence;" i.e. if you find one across the road you want to travel, don't be to quick to knock it down unless you are quite sure you know why it was put there in the first place. Part of the fun of tying traditional patterns, I suppose, is learning who put the fence there and why.

Who put it there is nice to know and some detail may be important. The WHY , now that's the bit really worth understanding. i strongly suspect though I may be wrong that the answer to the who and the why is not a simple one but that many of the styles and patterns are a culmination of an evolutionary processes from a lot of anglers over a long enough period of time - finding a productive method for the nature of their water and formed fly's using easily available inexpensive materials.

Howdy All;

I persued the link, got to the page attempted to view the videos no sunshine on my screen.

Would be nice o "see" what all the disagreement is about. So, ... I'll sit on the sidelines and keep my thoughts
to me an Rascal.

It is an interesting exchange of thought and ideals ...

hank

the why is not a simple one but that many of the styles and patterns are a culmination of an evolutionary processes from a lot of anglers

Ha, no doubt your countryman, Edmund Burke, would be part of our little platoon here. At any rate, I'm grateful to the traditionalists among us for keeping those vestiges of old technologies alive--kind of like seeing the traces of a Roman road in the gauge of a railroad track, a little palimpsest to read while you're lifting up and dropping down, though it's never the same river twice.

Don't take me wrong, these are serious flys and will exist long after you or I have turned to dust. The danger is to look on them with rose tinted glasses and believe them a universal panacea. I would think though no matter what river you fish that these types of flies have something to offer and on some maybe all you need.

It is sad to me to see this negative and rigid attitude in a community that I find insightful and tolerant, even pleasant and supportive. I love the soft-hackled flies that we tie, fish and share. I find the diversity more interesting than the demand for any rule on the matter of any detail. The general attitude exuded by Bob Smith in this thread takes the joy out of the rich and varied history of the North Country flies for me. Historic information is interesting, even on a subject so insignificant in the world we live in, but community, courtesy and generosity are far more important in every regard. The discussions, posts and sharing of information here is to be a source of enjoyment, never hostility or slander. It's unfortunate that Mr. Smith has some information to contribute but has missed the point of this community completely. This is disappointing on several levels.

w

Kind of reminds me about the time long ago that my prim and proper Aunt was all over my cousin at breakfast about how he improperly cracked his soft boiled egg.

If fish could read I would surely be in trouble with my imperfectly tied flies!

Now that things have been moderated I would love to see an answer about CreationBear's question about a living tradition of North Country wets.