Kreinik Silk Dubbing

[DNicolson]

Another recent acquisition is various Kreinik Silk Dubbing packs.
I noticed that this is referred to as 'dry fly' dubbing.
Has anyone tried it???

[Mike Connor]

Yes, it's pretty good, but you can make it from any silk yourself. As to it being "dry fly" dubbing, that is more wishful thinking than practical application. It will float OK when a decent floatant is used, but many floatants will skew the colour and mat the fibres badly. Can improve "standard" silk bodied spiders out of all recognition. Touch dubbed and sparsely dressed partridge and orange spiders using the orange silk dubbing will usually outfish the bare thread body flies by a wide margin. Same applies to a few others. The snipe and purple is also much better with a touch dubbed silk body.

The grey shades can substitute for various things like mole etc. A mix of brown red and grey gives a good water rat substitute ( which mole is not!), and there are other possibilities. Very easy to use, and as good or better than various animal dubbings for quite a few things.

I wouldn't bother using it on dry flies and I have no idea why they call it "dry fly " dubbing.

TL
MC

[Mike Connor]

Although I wrote "you can make it from any silk yourself", I should really have written any "floss" silk. Although you could doubtless make it from thread, that would likely be a very time consuming and rather pointless endeavour.

TL
MC

[CreationBear]

Touch dubbed and sparsely dressed partridge and orange spiders using the orange silk dubbing will usually outfish the bare thread body flies by a wide margin. Same applies to a few others. The snipe and purple is also much better with a touch dubbed silk body.

Great info...do you use the Kreinik's the entire length of the abdomen the way you might a mole-dubbed Watchet, or are you talking mainly about a thorax?

[Mike Connor]

[

Great info...do you use the Kreinik's the entire length of the abdomen the way you might a mole-dubbed Watchet, or are you talking mainly about a thorax?

The whole length. The staple of the dubbing is important, the idea being to give the body a fine translucent "halo". A few dressers I knew did this and I have also done it on a lot of my flies. Many people over the years have noticed that when silk bodies become "frayed" in use, ( hopefully from catching fish! ) then they catch a lot better. Using the fine silk dubbing simulates this to begin with. Certainly works, and apart from catching better immediately the flies last longer.

I don't normally use the Krenik's although I have used it and I still have a selection. I normally use chopped Pearsalls floss, but any silk floss will do, all natural silk strands have about the same diameter. This means I can control the staple exactly and obtain the effect I want more easily. Also, in some cases like the partridge and orange, or the snipe and purple I get the identical silk shade. In other cases a contrasting shade is better. A snipe and purple with a grey shade of dubbing will often work better than one with the same purple shade as the silk. A lot depends ion what you are trying to imitate. For small flies the dubbed silk is very similar to a palmered hackle. Some say that the added "mobility" also increases the attraction, and this may indeed be so. However, I am inclined to believe that the greater translucence is the key effect here.

TL
MC

[Mike Connor]

Hmm...unable to edit.

Added this: For small flies the dubbed silk is very similar to a palmered hackle. ( Looks a bit like a miniature Stewart's spider, depending on the staple). Some say that the added "mobility" also increases the attraction, and this may indeed be so. However, I am inclined to believe that the greater translucence is the key effect here. You will certainly notice what happens, one definitely gets more hits on these flies than on plain silk bodies. At one time, some of the "old masters" went to very great lengths to match dubbing. This is now seldom done, but it still works. In many cases dubbed flies are very much superior to plain silk or similar bodies. The silk dubbing makes it a lot easier to achieve some effects.

TL
MC

[Mike Connor]

Yes, I have seen that, I have commented on it before.

http://www.kreinik.com/kshop/product.php?productid=165

But silk is not hydrophobic, neither does it have a lower specific gravity than various "poly" dubbings ( Misleading in the extreme because "poly" is merely a prefix for lots of things). Natural untreated silk is about neutral density and will sink slowly in water once it penetrates the surface film. Polypropylene is actively hydrophobic, and has a specific gravity of about 0.7 making it 30% lighter than water. It will float "on" the film, and it will also bob up again if sunk and then float "in" the film. It will stay on the surface film unless disturbed because being hydrophobic it does not get wet, and water will not "wick" up on to it. This applies to a piece of polypropylene or a pinch of such dubbing etc. It may not apply to a hook dressed with such, as the buoyancy of the dubbing, ( which would usually be a small amount) can not overcome the weight of the hook.

However this may be, none of this can be said about silk.

Untreated silk dubbing doesn't float. However, finely chopped ( or dubbed) silk will stay on the surface film longer until it gets wet, because of the larger surface area. Treated silk dubbing will float until sunk. Soaked silk dubbing will sink immediately.

The "data" given is simply wrong. Were it correct we would still be using untreated silk lines to fish with, as they would be absolutely ideal. As we all know, this is not the case.

TL
MC

[Otter]

Mike

How do u prepare the silk dubbing from the pearsall's floss.

I have used some obtained by running the silk floss thru velcro and am interested to see what other methods are possible. I guess for a particular staple a simple cut and tease out by hand is required ?.

[Mike Connor]

Mike

How do u prepare the silk dubbing from the pearsall's floss.

I have used some obtained by running the silk floss thru velcro and am interested to see what other methods are possible.

I just cut the floss with scissors to the length I require and then mix it up in my fingers. You can also use a blender, or the various other mixing methods. They all work. The fact that silk strands are very fine makes it very easy to work with, even on small flies the dubbing does not "overpower" the fly size. Longer strands, (the staple length), will produce different effects, as will different dubbing methods. The most advantageous method for the silk bodied spiders is touch dubbing. To apply, unspin your thread ( spin your bobbin holder in the opposite direction to the thread twist), use some wax or "Pritt" stick on the thread. Touch the thread where desired with a "bunch" of dubbing. Spin the thread back to where it was. You should now have a "hairy" silk thread that you can wind as desired. This is much more difficult to do if you dress flies in hand, although it can be done, it is far more difficult to achieve the desired effect. With a vice and bobbin holder it's quite easy. Try a few different lengths of fibres to see the effects.

TL
MC

[Mike Connor]

The "Pritt" ( or other clear paper glue stick) is not waterproof. It doesn't need to be. It only has to hold the fibres long enough to allow you to get the fibres on to the thread and then spin the thread. Spinning the thread locks the fibres on to it. Winding the thread on locks them even more. Some will fall off when the fly is used but that doesn't matter. This is better than wax in many cases, the effect is different when silk is soaked with water, than when it is treated with wax. The paper glue just washes off very quickly.

If you don't spin the thread then less dubbing will be locked down. This of course can give you a much sparser body. In that case simply winding the thread will lock some fibres down. What you do depends on the effect you are aiming for.

These may seem like minor points, but they can make a massive difference in the efficacy of some flies.

TL
MC