Grouse and Mole

[tie2fish]

The Gunpowder is my home stream, William, and I know exactly what you went through to get back to the road. That route is a tough go even when it's light, and you must be in pretty good shape to have made without knowing where the fords are and how to get around that rock face that guards the river right above the bridge. Let me know the next time you head up this way, and I'll ghillie for you.

[William Anderson]

That sounds great. I need to spend some more time up there and I could sure use the help. I'll send you a note, but my trips are infrequent and usually pretty spontaneous. I have two little kids, so my time is not my own. I would love the company though. Now I'm off topic completely. sorry.

w

[redietz]

I have to say I'm not crazy about the gold hooks for my own flies...looks good here though. The think I really like about these hooks is the wide gap. This saved my hide last night on the Gunpowder in MD. The browns were feeding on the surface but just sipping little BWO's. I was fishing a soft hackled emerger on a light dry fly hook (Daiichi 1110 from older tying sessions) and saw some soft rejections, until I went with my favorite Diiachi wet 1530. The difference I believe was that subtle rejection wasn't as easy for them with the wider gap. These browns had large mouths, but they just didnt seem to spit it out as easily. I fished those pools until dusk...couldn't find my trail out up the mountain and about killed myself trying to traverse that canyon twice until I found a trail on the stream that led down to a bridge so I could hike back to my truck. Thank god I had a forgotten little flashlight with me. It was pittiful, but without it I would have had to just find a soft bed of moss and sit there until morning. Am I off topic? Just a reminder...take a light, check your batteries, and pay attention to your trails if you hike in and out of remote locations like i do. I was so happy to see that bridge.

I have a hard time thinking of the Gunpowder as a remote location . I've made that walk from the Falls road bridge back to the parking lot more than once, though.

You've attributed the difference in hook ups to the wider gap, but could it have been simply the heavier hook?
Also, were you making an upstream or downstream presentation? Over the last two weekends, fishing tiny soft hackles, I proven to myself (yet again) that it makes a real difference. (And that stretch of the GP is perfect for that style of fishing, btw.) Trout feed by sucking food into their mouths. For larger items, they also rush the prey, but for smaller stuff, they don't put a lot of effort into it; just flair their gills and inhale. If you're fishing downstream, with a tight leader, that suction may not pull the fly into their mouth, even though you feel a tug. (I've seen it happen close up.) It may be that the heavier hook has a bit more forward momentum going downstream to make a difference.

And to keep from completely hijacking the thread, I'll agree that the gold hook really looks nice on that fly.

[GlassJet]

Hi-jack away, as far as i am concerned. Some photos of where you are talking about would be good though...
andrew

[redietz]

Some photos of where you are talking about would be good though...

Done. I put them in the member's photos section:

http://www.flymphforum.com/phpBB3/viewt ... f=7&t=1237

[William Anderson]

Hey Bob, again, sorry I'm just getting to this. I didn't mean that the trail on the Gunpowder was a remote location....it's actually well manicured compared to the streams I like to haunt. But I did miss that trail, and thought...the road has to be straight up the hill, right? So I bushwacked my way in the dark up the rocks and underbrush to the top of the hill...and no sign of the road. So I went down the other side thinking in this darkness, I might be missing something. Then I had to climb that hill, no trial, back to the top, moving up and down the hill like a dope. I just knew that road was up there, but I finally conceded and just bushwacked back down to the stream, now in total pitch-black darkness to the water and followed downstream to the bridge. No biggie, with even a modicum of light, but in the dark...I didn't like it. And I'm afraid of snakes. I love that area though. Man was that nice.

Regarding the original post...then the hook gap discussion - I was fishing mostly up and across with a long leader and watching the very subtle movement of the rise/sip/pause with no hook up. In that expulsion movement with the drawing in of the object with the gills, I think the hook would be more difficult to expell - or be more likely to hang in the cheeck or lip with a wider gap. One of hundreds of theories, usually contradictory and most of them true. The hook weight might have played a part, as you mentioned if I were fishing a tight line downstream. I typically fish softhackles, more like dries, up and across and that night I was using my amadou patch to keep the fly dry and up higher toward the film, where the naturals were being inhalled/sipped. Who knows...maybe they really preferred a softhackle tied with sparse dubbing in a split thread silk body as opposed to a body of sparse dubbing applied to the silk with wax. We tie them with every body variation, so there must be a reason right?

w

[redietz]

In that expulsion movement with the drawing in of the object with the gills, I think the hook would be more difficult to expell - or be more likely to hang in the cheeck or lip with a wider gap.

Yeah, that's assuming the fly ever got in the fish's mouth in the first place. I've personally witnessed an instance where it didn't. I was on Big Hunting Creek in late February a couple of years back and noticed a brookie of about 10 inches pretty much just under my rod tip, but about 2 feet downstream. I swung my flies down him on a tight leader. I could see the gills flare, the mouth open, and felt a tug -- but the fly never moved. I guess the fish was puzzled, and decided it needed to try harder next time, because on the next swing past him, he charged the fly. I lifted his head out of the water trying to set the hook, but he still came off. The very next cast, he charged my top dropper, and I finally caught him. I now 100% convinced that at least some of the times you think you've missed a fish, the fish never had the fly in its mouth, and that it's always worth covering the same fish immediately.

Yes, I think a wider gap helps with hook up. It's one of the reasons I fish soft hackles. I can tie a smaller fly by tying sparsely on a larger hook giving me effectively a larger gap. I also think there are other factors at work, too, though. If the fly is swinging up toward the fish (e.g. Leisenring Lift) it's still moving downstream, and the fish has a better chance of getting the fly in its mouth than if it were simply hanging in the film on a taut line. Of course, if you're fishing dead drift, it shouldn't matter. And of course, I could be completely wrong on the whole matter.